Altbier Recipe

[denny]

@majorvices

Another thing to consider is that there are lots of different alts in Dussledorf and Germany and they don’t all taste the same! There are variations on the style.

Yep…LOTs of variations.  Most are too sweet for my tastes, which is why I prefer Zum Uerige.

[denny]

@goschman

I have finalized my recipe to brew on Saturday. It is not really an Alt but for our purposes, let’s say it is…

I plan to use the Dusseldorf water profile. What pH should I shoot for? I have recently started treating my water and have just been adjusting to 5.4. From what I am learning, darker beers seem to benefit from 5.5 and pilsners from 5.2. I assume for a beer like this that 5.3 or 5.4 would be sufficient?

It’s generally not a good idea to use a city profile.  How do you know how or if they treat the water?

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

@denny

@goschman

I have finalized my recipe to brew on Saturday. It is not really an Alt but for our purposes, let’s say it is…

I plan to use the Dusseldorf water profile. What pH should I shoot for? I have recently started treating my water and have just been adjusting to 5.4. From what I am learning, darker beers seem to benefit from 5.5 and pilsners from 5.2. I assume for a beer like this that 5.3 or 5.4 would be sufficient?

It’s generally not a good idea to use a city profile.  How do you know how or if they treat the water?

I don’t know. I was just reading about that in the water knowledge section.

I don’t match water profiles exactly and this is my first time using a city profile as a ‘guide’. I normally just shoot to match S04 and bump up my Ca as needed which is always necessary for my water. Using CaCl naturally brings up my Cl which is not an issue. I can go with the Amber bitter profile for 30 more ppm of SO4 otherwise the difference is minimal for my adjustments.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@goschman

I can go with the Amber bitter profile for 30 more ppm of SO4

FWIW, I use Amber Bitter for alt.  Comes out great for the style of alt I like.

[wort-h.o.g]

@denny

I definitely get sourness from wheat a lot of times.

I’ve always had trouble with some of the things in that book, but AFAIK, the use of crystal in the book is fairly accurate, no matter what he says in the text.  For years, I ridiculed it, then came across the recipe fro Zum Uerige, my absolute favorite alt.  There is some crystal in it.  The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
.15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
.7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
.46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Denny-
Is the chocolate simply for color contribution- wondering if some sinamar vs. the roast.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

@denny

I definitely get sourness from wheat a lot of times.

I’ve always had trouble with some of the things in that book, but AFAIK, the use of crystal in the book is fairly accurate, no matter what he says in the text.  For years, I ridiculed it, then came across the recipe fro Zum Uerige, my absolute favorite alt.  There is some crystal in it.  The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
.15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
.7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
.46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Denny-
Is the chocolate simply for color contribution- wondering if some sinamar vs. the roast.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I use 2 oz dehusked carafa ii with good results. I think it adds just a bit of complexity without noticeable roast.

[scarper11 (Pinski)]

@majorvices

Another thing to consider is that there are lots of different alts in Dussledorf and Germany and they don’t all taste the same! There are variations on the style.

Big time.  I would add that in my estimation, it is Zum Uerige’s application of hops that set them apart as Jeff mentioned, “an outlier” in term of bitterness moreso than a dramatically different grist compared to others in Dusseldorf.

[wort-h.o.g]

@goschman

@denny

I definitely get sourness from wheat a lot of times.

I’ve always had trouble with some of the things in that book, but AFAIK, the use of crystal in the book is fairly accurate, no matter what he says in the text.  For years, I ridiculed it, then came across the recipe fro Zum Uerige, my absolute favorite alt.  There is some crystal in it.  The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
.15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
.7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
.46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Denny-
Is the chocolate simply for color contribution- wondering if some sinamar vs. the roast.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I use 2 oz dehusked carafa ii with good results. I think it adds just a bit of complexity without noticeable roast.

yeah i wouldnt worry about 2oz contributing roast-just curious if it added anything other than color. i have sinamar and 2oz would be good color contribution with all the other malt.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@goschman

@denny

I definitely get sourness from wheat a lot of times.

I’ve always had trouble with some of the things in that book, but AFAIK, the use of crystal in the book is fairly accurate, no matter what he says in the text.  For years, I ridiculed it, then came across the recipe fro Zum Uerige, my absolute favorite alt.  There is some crystal in it.  The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
.15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
.7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
.46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Denny-
Is the chocolate simply for color contribution- wondering if some sinamar vs. the roast.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I use 2 oz dehusked carafa ii with good results. I think it adds just a bit of complexity without noticeable roast.

yeah i wouldnt worry about 2oz contributing roast-just curious if it added anything other than color. i have sinamar and 2oz would be good color contribution with all the other malt.

FWIW, I used ~ 2 oz Carafa III last time I brewed that. Came out nice.

[denny]

@denny

I definitely get sourness from wheat a lot of times.

I’ve always had trouble with some of the things in that book, but AFAIK, the use of crystal in the book is fairly accurate, no matter what he says in the text.  For years, I ridiculed it, then came across the recipe fro Zum Uerige, my absolute favorite alt.  There is some crystal in it.  The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
.15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
.7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
.46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Denny-
Is the chocolate simply for color contribution- wondering if some sinamar vs. the roast.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Simply for color.  I use sinamar in mine.

[wort-h.o.g]

Denny-
Is the chocolate simply for color contribution- wondering if some sinamar vs. the roast.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[/quote]

Simply for color.  I use sinamar in mine.

[/quote]

ok that’s what i expected.just wanted to make sure i wasnt missing some secret.

[wort-h.o.g]

40IBU seem reasonable- or too much?

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

Not too much at all. Here’s the last version of that I did. Zum Uerige is kind of an outlier compared to some - bitterness is fairly high.

OG 1.050

96.1% Pils
2.4% Caramunich
1.5% Carafa III

19.9 IBU HM - 60 min
15.1 IBU Perle - 60 min
14.7 IBU Spalt - 20 min

WY1007 -  hold @ 60F for 3 days, slowly ramp

Mash 150/ 75 mins

[wort-h.o.g]

Ok makes sense. Pretty much what I plugged in- minus carafa and 97% Pils 3% caramunich with 2oz sinamar.

[denny]

40IBU seem reasonable- or too much?

For my tastes it’s at the low end.

[wort-h.o.g]

@denny

40IBU seem reasonable- or too much?

For my tastes it’s at the low end.

High end is ?

[hopfenundmalz]

@denny

40IBU seem reasonable- or too much?

For my tastes it’s at the low end.

High end is ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For my taste around 50 to 55.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

That Zum Uerige recipe I use works out to 49.7 IBU BTW.

[wort-h.o.g]

That Zum Uerige recipe I use works out to 49.7 IBU BTW.

Yeah I tweaked my hop amounts to line up and at about 50…rolling with that. I’m using wlp029

[scarper11 (Pinski)]

That Zum Uerige recipe I use works out to 49.7 IBU BTW.

I’m using wlp029

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting, I have a “kolsch” fermenting on WY1007 German Ale “Alt” yeast.