That’s what I used to do but I would be interested how 1 packet rehydrated would do (and bet it does fine). That said, I did one single packet @ 60F in a NGP and don’t think I will ever go back to cooler ferments. I am BJCP and brutal about my own stuff.
Yeah, that stuff (830/2124/34-70) is super clean. Pretty hard to screw up.
Oh boy, I hear ya, man. I beat myself up pretty bad about approximately 50% of the beers I make, “dang it, I should have done this or that, what was I thinking”. Then the other 50% of the time I’m elated just because it turned out halfway decent. 
I picked up a couple AG saison kits from NB, and I read that they recommend pitching TWO packs of dry yeast in the 5 gallon batch. I kind of thought that was overkill. I’m going to brew tomorrow - do you think I can get away with just the single pack?
Absolutely. One pack is plenty of yeast. The only time I use two packs of dry is on a lager or a 1.090+ ale. Having said that, I don’t use dry yeast a lot . No worries.
Yeah, I really thought 2 packs was extreme overkill, but I’ve never used Belle Saison before. Glad to hear that people have had good results with it.
That’s just silly. In future I shall use a half a pack.
Tell me more about this: you ferment your Pils @60F, with 1 packet of W-34/70 per 5-6gal? I loved 34/70 but I’ve been a solid 2packs per 5gal guy for years, and always try to keep it around 50-51F for the first 5-6 days, then ramp it up toward mid-60s over the next 5-6 days…
But you’re saying with less yeast and a warmer ferment, you’re still happy with it?
[quote=“redzim, post:48, topic:23759, username:redzim”]
Tell me more about this: you ferment your Pils @60F, with 1 packet of W-34/70 per 5-6gal? I loved 34/70 but I’ve been a solid 2packs per 5gal guy for years, and always try to keep it around 50-51F for the first 5-6 days, then ramp it up toward mid-60s over the next 5-6 days…
But you’re saying with less yeast and a warmer ferment, you’re still happy with it?
Heck yeah. I was the same as you but gave it a shot once and am converted. In fact, planning to brew a NGP today with same technique.
Looked up the data sheet for Lallemand Belle Saison. Says 5 x 10*9th cells per gram. So an 11 gram satchet would have 55B cells. Considerably less than a WL vial. Unless I’m doing the math wrong (good posiblity).
I think your math is right and hope theirs is wrong. A quick look and their windsor is low too… Interesting find!
Yeah but… I still maintain my bet that a little stress by underpitching with any Belgian or weizenbier yeast helps these yeasts to express more of the lovely esters and phenols… and secondly, Windsor is a BEAST that will hit final attenuation within 36 hours if you pitch “the standard” quantity, so perhaps underpitching wouldn’t be such a bad thing for that one as well, maybe then it takes 48 or even 72 hours to hit FG – oh no!
8)
Dave, I agree that under pitching is good for some styles. I think that I’ve underpitched Belle Saison twice and tasted some interesting flavors (pear, pepper, anise) in the beer. But my idea of underpitching is a rehydrated 11 gram satchet in 5.5 gallons of wort.
Here’s my math (yours may vary).
If you want the beer at high kraeusen to have 200B cells/liter* in 21L, that’s 4200B cells. If you want to get there in 4 doublings (should be enough lipids for 4 replications without O2), you need to start with 262.5B cells. At 55B cells/satchet** you would need to pitch 4.77 satchets.
- Don’t know if that’s realistic.
**Lallemand says >5 x 10*9th cells/gram, so could be more.
I checked the other dry yeast makers and found that they are all in the same ballpark. Fermentis is high at > 69B cells/packet and Mangrove Jack’s is lowest at >50B cells/packet.
I think you’ve accidentally squared the math. For a standard beer of about 1.055 OG, you want 7B cells/liter, so in 21L (5 gal), that’s ~150B cells/5 gal, or let’s say 200B like you had. Not 4200B!!! So divide 200B by 16 and you get… 12.5B, which is only a quarter of a sachet for 5 gallons!!!
This is the first time I ever dicked around with cell counts. Educational. Thanks.
Ahah! I thought that 200B cells/liter couldn’t be realistic. 7B-10B cells/liter final growth would make 2-3 grams a “standard” pitch. Makes more sense now.
Wow! You’re going to have to get out the jeweler’s scale to underpitch a 1.7 gal. batch.
You ain’t kidding! I may never have a need to buy yeast or make a starter ever again! 
Lost on this. Is this the “4 doublings”? Also, the aforementioned pitch rate 7B/L, where does it come from? I am just interested. I really think homebrewers in general are way overthinking yeast.
I TOTALLY agree that many homebrewers tend to overthink pretty much everything, myself included when it comes to certain stuff. Yeast was never something I thought a whole lot about but am starting to now.
Yes, exactly. 2 to the 4th power is 16.
I got the 7B/L thing from the following link, but I’m sure they got it from someplace else. Interwebs are probably chock full of crazy talk about billions of yeast cells and yadda-yadda and honestly I’m not even all that terribly interested in any details except for the bottom line. And the bottom line is, I only need to use 1/4 packet of dry yeast for 5 gallons from now on, or its equivalent for my 1/3 size batches (1.7 gallons) so I guess that’s 1/12 packet! I’ve always used 1/4 to 1/2 packet so I guess I was really overpitching. Anyway, here’s that link:
Yes.