I have had astringent problems and I am convinced it is the hops. Check this out.
http://byo.com/stories/item/1124-mash-temperatures--hop-astringency-mr-wizard
Also I know make sure my sparge water is below 6PH.
Just a fast way to check your water is a TDS meter. About $20.
Could it be chlorophinols that you are mistaking for astringency? Not all RO systems are capable of reducing chloramine levels very well. The key is lots of contact time with carbon. This is why some systems have two carbon blocks before the membrane and one after. More before the membrane couldn’t hurt. Some makers sell carbon blocks specific to chloramine, but I have seen some say it isn’t worth the extra expense.
I’m not an expert, just what I have gathered while researching home RO systems.
Chloramine is used in municipal supplies right? I’m on a well.
Just to make sure everyone understands what I mean by astringency. It’s an off-putting bitterness in the back of my tongue. it’s not a nice mid-palate bitterness from a nice crisp IPA.
Given i can’t taste it, in my mind it sounds like hop astringency from a to high boil ph. Long lingering harsh bitterness?
Ok, I will be brewing in two days. I think I am going to make the following changes:
1. drop the citric acid
2. add salts to the sparge water
3. Acidify the sparge water to about 5.4
And then I’ll measure the pre-boil PH. What PH should I be on the look out for? 5.2-5.4, correct?
I shoot for 5.4 or less preboil. 5.3 would be good
Make sure your way of ph measurement is accurate as well.
Try a different bitting hop? I love bittering with Columbus, but many don’t.
Maybe just utilize FWH?
Could it be yeast in the beer?
There have been some interesting discussions around regarding bitterness extraction from late hop and dry hop additions. I think it could be your culprit. Most folks and spreadsheets assume a zero bitterness extraction with late/ flame out/whirlpool (at180 or below)/dry hopping, but that is proving not to be the case.
ynotbrusum - This is where I’m leaning towards as well as I look back over time on my notes/recipes. I used to do a 60-minute addition, 5-minute addition, and then a fairly sizable flameout. However, that flameout addition was typically done in conjunction with immediate chilling. As I started to experiment I’ve started shifting all the IBUs into the flameout/whirlpool addition. As a result of that I am adding very large flameout additions to maintain similar IBUs in the recipe builder (Beersmith). However, I have been doing a full 30 minute whirlpool and my kettle rarely falls below 200F in that time frame. So, I don’t think the tool is accurately calculating the IBUs in the flameout…because if you think about it a 30-minute whirlpool at 205-210 is not a whole lot different from a 30-minute boil addition and it’s a TON of hops in there. And add 15-18oz of pellet hops in 10 gallons for dry hopping I think that may have an impact as well.
I agree for the most part. Late additions and flameout stands definitely add noticeable bitterness. Dry hopping has been shown to add some bitterness, more so on big dry hop additions. Cooler hopstands undoubtedly add some, but I don’t notice it below a certain temp. Regardless, it’s something for us to be considering, especially on beers like NE IPA where it’s all about tons of late and dry additions.
How does the FG of the latter two beers compare to previous beers? Bitterness and astringency are more easily noticed in a drier beer over a sweeter one.
I would add the sparge salts to the entire sparge volume. You can estimate the total sparge volume in advance so as not to dilute based on an estimated grain retention of 1 pint per gallon.
First off, I would try and seek out a BJCP to sample to get more accurate feedback. Hopefully you have a local or ship to one of us. This should help distinguish polyphenol/tannin astringency vs bitterness. That said, based on your description, lingering/back of throat is harsh bitterness. Classic for Columbus if you ask me. Did you use Columbus in the successful beers? IMO NE IPA should not have any high coho hops nor boil additions. We can pick apart your process but it is actually pretty sound, including the 5.2 pH. It is now fact these NE brewers deliberately lower the pH for this style, however, the acids used vary by the brewer, but honestly I citric would work well. I would still double check your water tho, seems odd that your final pH was higher with the acid additions…
Where did you get this as fact? Not doubting, just wondering. Also… lowering pH in the mash, kettle or final beer?
HBT IIRC, but Kimmich has videos posted I guess. Of course, many disputed this as a mash temp reading but he later confirmed it was room temp. I do not recall if Kimmich offered advice on sparge, but I seem to recall there is another dose to boil.
You could also try batch sparging if you aren’t already. It doesn’t have the affect on pH that fly sparging has.
^^ this made me think. Maybe you are over sparging? Do you know the gravity of the runnings at the end of sparge? Try sparging a bit less and topping off in kettle. Might take a minor efficiency hit, but worth it if the beer isn’t bad.
This is along the lines of what I was thinking. Astringency and bitterness aren’t usually the same thing. For NE IPA-style beers I usually just use a hop shot to get my bitterness, or whirlpool hot to get my IBU’s there. And Columbus and Chinook are two hops I’d never use in this style.