Sunday was a brutal brew day for me. I spent almost 8 hours brewing a ten gallon batch. I had the brewhouse set up the night before and there was significant cleaning left when I walked away. It was my first brew day on my newly assembled 2 tier/single pump Direct fire rims system. (Previously brewed extract and BIAB only) I missed my mash temp by a mile on the low end, Recircing to bring up the temp took forever and resuted in a large over shoot (temp rose when stirred). I probably spent a little more than half the mash time within a degree of the mash temp. there were other problems and mistakes as well. All in all the beer is brewed and will probably be just fine, but I have a lot of improvements to make and a few questions to have answered. Here are a few things. Feel free to take on any or all.
Mash in: I had my mash water in my tun preheated because I can do that kind of thing with a direct fire mash tun. I couldn’t find a calculator that provided me with a grain only strike temperature so I had to best guess it based on different calculators I found for Strike water. As stated above. The best guess didn’t pan out
Maintaining Mash temp: I have only one thermometer which is in the side of the tun (15 gal sanke) and it doesn’t indicate well for recirc. I have to stir to check temp as I discovered. I know that those with automated electric RIMS use the out flow of the tun as the mash temp, but they cycle on and off in milli seconds which apparently works great buy I don’t know If that will work because I need to long cycle, plus I just spent a bunch of money to put this thing together….
Sparge speed: Im having a hard time getting a slow flow from the Chugger pump. It seems that the pump will not stay coupled at lower flow rates. This led me to sparge way faster than I probably should have. Because I just took that as low flow and set my drain speed to match. I realized it was going fast about halfway through but just let it go because I figured I could make up some time which I did, and hit my targets well enough thought I known that does not make it right/ideal.
Mash PH: Used Brew’n water and was way off. Targeted 5.35 I think… got 6.34 and had to add acid. No Idea what happened here… accurate measuring scale and PH meter and pretty sure I measured all additions accurately and set the program up well.
Im going to make some changes before next brew day with batch sparge being one of them. I can drain at full throttle without issue so I figure it’s an easy way to get around the flow rate issue and simplify/speed the brew day. Heck I may even look into no sparge. I can always try fly sparging again in the future if I feel so inclined.
Current system is X3 stainless 15gallon vessels. MLT is direct fired RIMS and is raised. Pump into MLT gravity out. Batch brewed was 10 gallons of 1.045 ish wort split to boil 5 gallons each in different Kettles. Pump is new chugger/standard Impeller, system connections are all 1½ Tri clamp with ½ “ hose barbs and ½ “ Sil tubing.
Grain bill was 15 lbs Marris otter and 1.5 lbs crystal 75.
My brew days almost always take a full work day, when you add everything up. A new system in my experience take time to get use to. I cook for a living, and anytime I enter a new kitchen I know I have to adapt to a new environment and equipment. Give yourself some time and you will be cranking out brews with ease on your new system. I know I’m not giving you a specific answer to your questions, but I know more advanced brewers will be along to help you.
As far as the grain strike, I use beersmiths infusion temp tool. It seems to hit it right on, if you have a RIMS set-up how is your heat regulated? Manually? If so the pronged thermometers need calibrated from time to time. A high quality thermocouple is an investment, but a lifetime investment. Or invest in a heat regulator, that has a in line T probe thermostat and it will keep your coldest temp at a +/-1F of your target. It’s also a bigger investment, but much like a mill can make all the difference in your final product. And if you can put a ball valve on each side of your pump you can help slow things up. Open them up all the way, turn your pump on, slowly turn your flow in down and flow out down little by little until you see the flow you want in your recirculation. That should be the same speed as your sparging I believe.
Exactly! 6.34 is not possible unless the tap water was hugely alkaline or an alkaline salt was added. Sounds like a measurement error.
If your pump decouples when the output valve is closed, the pump is defective. There should be no reason that this should decouple the magnets.
You should measure the temperature of your wort at a point as close as possible downstream of the heat input. That provides the best feedback for the PID.
+1000. I seem to recall other brewers just running water in the system or doing smaller scale batches to try and dial things in. From watching other posts, it might even require modification of the system to do this.
The rims probe needs to be output flow (I like it right at the kettle valve). I use the hysteresis control instead of pid for my direct rims, stops the short cycling problem. I can ramp from acid rest to Sach rest in less than 30min, check your flowers rate.
Thanks for all the replys, I do believe that I will grow into the system but there is some work to be done too. My pump is throttled at the output with a 5/8 ID ball valve. And thinking about it I dont know that the pump decouples fully but flow rapidly falls off to nothing or next to nothing at a certain point. I am brand new to pumps less my reading up of forums so its hard to say. I will pay attention to noise next time. It peformed the same with mash recirc and clean water though…
And I AM USING PICKLING LIME! My water is very soft. I dont know how to post photos here yet so no screen shot of Brew’n water but the adjustment and summary page look good. As much as I believe that I measured perfectly, I have made a mistake or two in the past so who knows. I will add half as much next time and see what happens.
Oh and my rims is not automated. I use a PIC (Person In Charge) instead of a PID lol… not working out so great though. Actually all of the replies about RIM’s T-couples and PID modes lead me to believe that RIM’s is automated by design/default, and that fact has alluded me. Or did I give that impression by comparing electric automation?
electric automation is where I would like to be for the whole system but that is some serious money for what I want though. Maybe one day…
Well my connections are all TC with otiker clamps so not likely at connections but I did not check for air in the supply hose. I will add it to my list of things to investigate.
It seems unlikely that you’d need pickling lime for any pale beer. Base malt is going to give you a pH of 5.6-5.8. Double check your spreadsheet calculations and don’t overdo any adjustments just to try to match a water profile. Many of them are decarbonated (Alkalinity reduced) before use.
I will double check but I did have to add pickling lime to get my PH where I wanted it to be. (originally) Maybe because of the use of other additives?? I had to play around and add a cocktail of things to get a match for the pale ale profile because my water is so void of minerals.
If your water is as void of minerals as you say, you should not have needed to add more alkalinity. You should have been solid with gypsum, Epsom, and calcium chloride. A little salt wouldn’t have hurt.
Did you try to match the carbonate? If so, don’t.
I brew with 100% RO that measure less than 10ppm. I only add alkalinity for dark beers. Beers with little or no crystal malts often need acid.
I did not try to match carbonate. but did use pickling lime to make things right per the program. I will share screenshots to get some feedback on my additions. I dont currently have any photo hosting site in use so I cant share screen shots right now but I will work to get some pics up soon.
Recipe: Sour Split batch TYPE: All Grain
Style: Best Bitter
—RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 13.8 SRM SRM RANGE: 8.0-16.0 SRM
IBU: 33.8 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 25.0-40.0 IBUs
OG: 1.045 SG OG RANGE: 1.040-1.048 SG
FG: 1.013 SG FG RANGE: 1.008-1.012 SG
BU:GU: 0.745 Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz Est ABV: 4.2 %
EE%: 72.00 % Batch: 10.00 gal Boil: 13.46 gal BT: 60 Mins
—WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
Total Grain Weight: 16 lbs 13.0 oz Total Hops: 3.50 oz oz.
—MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
15 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (2.5 SRM) Grain 1 89.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 75L (75.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.9 %
5.0 oz Chocolate Malt (420.0 SRM) Grain 3 1.9 %
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 25.71 qt of water at 161.5 F 152.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Add -0.00 qt of water at 168.0 F 168.0 F 1 min
—SPARGE PROCESS—
-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 72.0 F/72.0 F
-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 9.30 gal water at 168.0 F
—BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.037 SG Est OG: 1.045 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.50 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil Hop 4 33.8 IBUs
—FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 06 Oct 2016 - 4.00 Days at 67.0 F
Secondary Start: 10 Oct 2016 - 10.00 Days at 67.0 F
Style Carb Range: 1.60-2.50 Vols
Bottling Date: 20 Oct 2016 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
—NOTES------------------------------------