BJCP and carbonation volumes

[a10t2]

Then why list starting/ending gravities, ABV range, or IBU range when none of that can be measured by the judge other than subjectively?

I never said that they don’t try to help brewers enter the right category.

[stbloomfield_gmail.com (ccfoo242)]

OK, the official unofficial word from the BJCP is:

There are no measured values which would correspond to a carbonation chart which seems to be what you are asking. The carbonation level affects all attributes of a beer, but the descriptors 'medium" and ‘high’ are based upon what is sensed in the mouthfeel. The appearance can provide clues as to the carbonation level in some instances.

There is no absolute chart for cabonation volumes for each style. In reality the carbonation level in volumes varies by temperature and the warmer a beer becomes the less soluble the carbon dioxide. There are some listings and programs which provide acceptable carbonation levels based upon style, you may find those useful.

As far as the programs that give estimated ranges, they are best guesses by the authors, at least that is the case with Beersmith.

I find the suggested ranges varies enough to be quite varied.

For example look at the suggestions for a Belgian dubbel:
Tastybrew: 1.9 - 2.4
Beersmith: 2.3 - 2.9
Brewing Classic Styles: 3 - 4

So does a Belgian dubbel really have carbonation from 1.9 - 4? I find that hard to believe…but then I’m a noob at this.

[denny]

Tastybrew is always on the low side.  I recommend not using that site for carbonation values.

[mdixon]

I always round the recipator to be pretty much on target. Looks like it is still up
http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html

[tomsawyer]

I haven’t had bad luck with tastybrew but the part about beer temp is the most nebulous part of the calculation.  You use the temp during the fermentation, but I think if you let a beer sit for quite awhile afterwards then it probably gases out to whatever the ambient temp allows.

I wouldn’t think a dubbel would have 4vol CO2, but I certainly wouldn’t carb it to 2vol either.

[morticaixavier]

@tomsawyer

I haven’t had bad luck with tastybrew but the part about beer temp is the most nebulous part of the calculation.  You use the temp during the fermentation, but I think if you let a beer sit for quite awhile afterwards then it probably gases out to whatever the ambient temp allows.

I wouldn’t think a dubbel would have 4vol CO2, but I certainly wouldn’t carb it to 2vol either.

I have always used the highest temp the beer has experience post active fermentation.

[thomasbarnes]

@a10t2

Remember, the guidelines are there to assist in judging a beer. Helping brewers formulate recipes isn’t the BJCP’s job.

Listing typical ingredients and techniques can help judges give feedback, which is an important part of judging. Generally, though, you’re right. The BJCP guidelines are competition rules, not a recipe book.

[thomasbarnes]

Then why list starting/ending gravities, ABV range, or IBU range when none of that can be measured by the judge other than subjectively?  If they were consistent then alcohol and IBU’s would be listed as low/medium/high…or carbonation would be listed as a range of volumes.

Actually, you can sort of suss out these stats at the table. IBU ranges are detectable to about +/-5 IBU, ABV of 6+% is detectable as alcohol aroma, flavor, warmth and “legs” on the side of the glass. FG >1.015 manifests as fuller body or underattenuation, FG <1.005 manifests as watery or thin body. OG can be inferred by alcohol presence and/or body.

[stbloomfield_gmail.com (ccfoo242)]

Well, I see that I was looking at the style guidelines backwards, but its hard not to when you want to “brew to style.” Just about every parameter is listed for us so without thinking that the guideline wasn’t supposed to be used the way I was that’s why I was confused about not seeing actual volume numbers for carbonation. Live and learn! 

[mdixon]

I wouldn’t really call what I responded to you via email as the “official word”. 8)

[stbloomfield_gmail.com (ccfoo242)]

@mdixon

I wouldn’t really call what I responded to you via email as the “official word”. 8)

Oh, sorry…your response earlier in the thread didn’t indicate your affiliation with the BJCP, so when I received an email from you I didn’t put 2 and 2 together.

I corrected the post… 

[tomsawyer]

@morticaixavier

@tomsawyer

I haven’t had bad luck with tastybrew but the part about beer temp is the most nebulous part of the calculation.  You use the temp during the fermentation, but I think if you let a beer sit for quite awhile afterwards then it probably gases out to whatever the ambient temp allows.

I wouldn’t think a dubbel would have 4vol CO2, but I certainly wouldn’t carb it to 2vol either.

I have always used the highest temp the beer has experience post active fermentation.

I’d suppose if the beer sat for a few days at a given temp it might have tme to equilibrate to near what that CO2 level would be.  There might be a little super-saturation thing going though, plus whatever little bit of pressure from the airlock exerts would increase the level a bit.

[phunhog]

I have always wondered how judges deal with some of the Belgian styles that require an extremely high carbonation volume (4+). Obviously regular bottles with crown caps are just an accident ready to happen.  I have never entered, say a BGSA,into a comp but I don’t think it would be quite the same if it didn’t have a very high level of carbonation. Do most people just enter “under-carbonated” beer knowing that the judges will understand.