I need some help with acid additions for a helles lager.
I have always paid attention to mash ph but I’m interested now in checkin it throughout the process, I’m a bit confused about the process, I’ve heard of letting the boil be higher in ph then dropping it at flame out, I’ve also heard about dropping the pre boil ph(which is different from mash ph?)then lowering it again in the boil, And what about the proper time to do it, would I add the acid after the final hops since they raise ph?
If your mash is within a reasonable range, the rest of the process usually follows. You can do a pH adjustment just prior to packaging if you feel so inclined. You can also season the beer with brewing salts at that time.
I’ve heard some brewer talking about this on Experimental Brewing… I don’t know the process they took, but I think they treated the mash as normal and after flame out made additional adjustments based on what they wanted post fermentation… but maybe someone with a better memory than me can fill you in… it was on one of the IPA episodes… I think with Beachwood BBQ… but again… Don’t count on my mind completely.
I know pH control is important as it speaks to the underlying chemistry of beer flavor creation and brewing efficiency.
Palmer bangs on about it at length in at least three books that I’m aware of so there’s something to it in higher level brewing. And you folks sound quite knowledgeable about it.
But how much of a difference do you think it makes to the finished product? Have there been any comparisons of parallel batches with identical grain bills and processes with pH manipulation as a variable?
My first all-grain mash used straight tap water and I got a mash efficiency of 40%. I went to my local homebrew store and after telling them my water source they recommended checking the pH and adjusting with acidulated malt. My next mash had an efficiency of 60%. After some other changes I now have a mash efficiency that is usually 80% - 85%.
You may feel mash pH in your pocketbook even if you can’t taste it in your beer.
just my 2 cents which shouldnt even be worth that, but I believe IBU extraction in the boil is more efficient at a slightly elevated PH, and clarifying agents are slightly more effective at a slightly lower PH. If you are a pro, brewing a huge amount of beer, extracted a few more IBU’s from using less hops and getting a 1 or 2% increase in yield due to better trub coagulation probably translates into a large amount of money and is worth it. On the homebrew scale, it just isnt worth it.
Ive tried adjusting PH throughout the process, and I didnt notice any difference except it being a bigger PITA having to take multiple PH measurements and adding acids at different points.
I now adjust my mash ph to be at about 5.2 for lighter colored beers, and about 5.5 for darker beers. In both cases my ph seems to want to drift to around 5.3-5.4.
I’d say it depends. I saw a big improvement in the flavor of my stouts and porters when I started targeting a mash pH of 5.6 instead of 5.3. I added citric acid with my dry hops on my most recent IPA and it was easily my favorite heavily-late-hopped IPA I’ve ever brewed. These specific changes made a significant flavor impact in my brews. Other adjustments I’ve made have been more subtle, and I can’t say for certain that Joe Beerdrinker could pick out the difference.
Yes. Acid can really “brighten up” food flavors, and it does the same with beer.
This doesn’t mean go and add acid to your beers, because they might already be within spec for pH. I’ve found that I don’t have to do much for my beers to land at a perfectly acceptable pH, for example, but YMMV and it will very much depend on your source water and the particulars of your process.
But if a beer has too high a final pH, it definitely tastes bland or “flabby,” and adding a little acid to it definitely brightens the flavor. Or just monitor and manipulate pH during brewing so you don’t have to.
I suspect it’s likely a matter of degree. I use BrunWater to calculate my mash and sparge additions (including acid). My first few times making these additions, I faithfully checked my pH all along the process. The mash pH results were always spot on what BW predicted, and the downstream numbers where about what I expected. After a half dozen closely monitored brews, I stopped obsessing and just trusted BW, with great results. I’m guessing that the mash/sparge adjustments deliver a close approximation of the pH results I intend, and that further adjustments may have comparatively minimal effect; sort of a diminishing returns situation. Could I marginally improve my results by chasing interim pH all across the process? Maybe, but I’m not a “super taster”; I don’t think I’d be able to notice a significant difference that I could attribute to that level of pH control. So it’s just not worth the effort, for me.
Whether you adjust the pH pre-boil or post boil, you should pitch lighter beers at 5.2 and darker beers at 5.4-5.5. At those pH’s the yeast will take over and will land at a range of pH specific to the yeast strain/style Post fermentation adjustments are a last resort. The risk of adding too much acid and ruining the beer are likely. Pitch at the proper pH and let the yeast can do it’s job. That’s one of many reason why pitch rates, vitality of yeast are so important. Let the yeast do the work and give it a shot by treating it right.
There is more on this topic in the other pH thread on the first page here. That thread is quite long so a warning ahead of time. The thread is also filled with links that deepen the topic further so put on your wetsuit and mask prior to opening it. :D In my own beers recently I am trying very hard to keep my mash pH around 5.5 (room temp pH) because this is supposed to me a desirable pH for mashing and also for boiling. But it was mentioned by Strong (or Palmer?) and also in a link in that thread that there are desirable pH ranges for mashing and boiling and also desirable pH ranges for finished beer flavor… and they are not the same. Yes, fermentation lowers the pH but not always to where you want it. Also, kettle finings seem to work better at a lower pH so I have been making an acid addition directly to the kettle with 10 minutes left and then adding kettle finings with about 7 minutes left. On the few batches where I have done this, the beer clarity was better and the beer had a more refreshing SNAP to it. There is more research to be done. Also, I hate, hate, hate to pass on dodgy information so if anyone is reading this and thinks that my comments need a caveat, a further explanation or a downright slap in the face, please post. Although I have been brewing for 22+ years, I am new to this approach and I’m sure there will be tweaking and more learning but I like what I have seen so far. Cheers Beerheads.
I will add the caveat that you mostly brew lighter colored beers and lagers where that SNAP is desired. Other styles may not enjoy a similar taste benefit from lowering the PH.
If you pitch at the proper pH you should never need to have an acid addiction to the finish beer unless your compensating for dry hopping. If your not hitting your desired finish pH after hitting the correct pitch pH, you have fermentation issue or your need to swap yeasts to one that produces more or less acid depending on what your trying to accomplish.
As I have said in the past, boil pH a very little impact on beer clarity unless it way out line. My beers are polished with a 5.1-5.15 boil pH. I’ve been doing it for years and winning locally and nationally in competitions for years as well. Don’t sweat it too much. Just get that pH right at pitch.
True. I have not determined which of my recipes would benefit from this and which may not. I also wanted to respond to one of the questions about whether most people would be able to tell if this kettle addition of acid was made. I doubt there is a definitive answer and each brewer would have to try it and see which they prefer. My guess is that if a batch were mashed and boiled at a pH in the mid-5s and there wasn’t an acid addition made to the kettle, the beer could end up being flabby and lack that crisp finish. There was a conversation on flabby beers HERE. There is some wandering around about how much acid to use (which may depend on everyone’s water) but it sounds to me like the point of it is that a beer with a high finished pH will not be as crisp and refreshing and may seem to be lacking something. It should be noted that I played around the edges of this topic for years and never really did anything with it and thought my beers were fine. So those who don’t like the sound of this or think it’s something to stay away from, by all means. I’m not trying to convince anyone, I’m just trying to make the best possible beer with what I have. Cheers gang.
