Boil temps - do they matter?

[beersk]

@mabrungard

After spending a few minutes reviewing what TBI and TBA are, it is very apparent that this is a well known effect in the big boy breweries. Extended or intense boiling can actually “pre-damage” the wort and make the resulting beer age quicker.

At the homebrew level where we probably keep our beer cooler and consume it sooner, this issue may be moot. But to provide your beers with longer shelf life, you do need to consider this. I will definitely be reviewing my practices and be making some changes.

Thanks for bringing this up, gentleman.

Accelerated staling is one issue, the others are flavor degradation, increased color pick up, oxidation, etc.

Another factor is, if a beer will be consumed within a month of kegging it, does it matter?

[stpug]

@mabrungard

After spending a few minutes reviewing what TBI and TBA are, it is very apparent that this is a well known effect in the big boy breweries. Extended or intense boiling can actually “pre-damage” the wort and make the resulting beer age quicker.

At the homebrew level where we probably keep our beer cooler and consume it sooner, this issue may be moot. But to provide your beers with longer shelf life, you do need to consider this. I will definitely be reviewing my practices and be making some changes.

Thanks for bringing this up, gentleman.

I appreciate how you’ve taken a simple yet obscure mention of an effect in brewing (TBI/TBA); done some quick, preliminary research; and provided some constructive feedback on the topic that’s to-the-point.  Thanks for being classy, Martin - it truly shines!

[stpug]

@beersk

@mabrungard

After spending a few minutes reviewing what TBI and TBA are, it is very apparent that this is a well known effect in the big boy breweries. Extended or intense boiling can actually “pre-damage” the wort and make the resulting beer age quicker.

At the homebrew level where we probably keep our beer cooler and consume it sooner, this issue may be moot. But to provide your beers with longer shelf life, you do need to consider this. I will definitely be reviewing my practices and be making some changes.

Thanks for bringing this up, gentleman.

Accelerated staling is one issue, the others are flavor degradation, increased color pick up, oxidation, etc.

Another factor is, if a beer will be consumed within a month of kegging it, does it matter?

Valid point for those that consume kegs in that time frame.  Some kegs I’ll finish within a month, some may take a few.  I have experienced degradation in beer quality fairly quickly in some kegs (1 week) while other kegs have held out much longer (many weeks).  The kind of degradation I experience is generally a loss of subtle-but-distinct malt or hop characteristics that are pleasurable in the beer; it’s nothing earth-shattering, but it’s an overall loss of quality from my standpoint.  I feel that some folks think of this low level of degradation as a “melding” of the beer constituents, and perceive it as a good thing (which it may very well be to their palate).  We all perceive things differently and that’s why homebrewing is so cool!  8)

[system]

@beersk

@mabrungard

After spending a few minutes reviewing what TBI and TBA are, it is very apparent that this is a well known effect in the big boy breweries. Extended or intense boiling can actually “pre-damage” the wort and make the resulting beer age quicker.

At the homebrew level where we probably keep our beer cooler and consume it sooner, this issue may be moot. But to provide your beers with longer shelf life, you do need to consider this. I will definitely be reviewing my practices and be making some changes.

Thanks for bringing this up, gentleman.

Accelerated staling is one issue, the others are flavor degradation, increased color pick up, oxidation, etc.

Another factor is, if a beer will be consumed within a month of kegging it, does it matter?

As I said accelerated staling is 1 issue, there are more that I listed. The beer is the sum of all parts. 

We were able to easily identify boiling differences in the raw post boil wort immediately…Let alone the other things.

[klickitat_jim]

http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/588a755b6b7ff/j.2050-0416.2011.tb00508.x.pdf%3Bjsessionid%3DE0B8EC321B494EF6CF5EEC024F972FA9.f03t01

Glad I Googled this TBA stuff. I will hold off on buying a flash pasteurization setup

[beersk]

@beersk

@mabrungard

After spending a few minutes reviewing what TBI and TBA are, it is very apparent that this is a well known effect in the big boy breweries. Extended or intense boiling can actually “pre-damage” the wort and make the resulting beer age quicker.

At the homebrew level where we probably keep our beer cooler and consume it sooner, this issue may be moot. But to provide your beers with longer shelf life, you do need to consider this. I will definitely be reviewing my practices and be making some changes.

Thanks for bringing this up, gentleman.

Accelerated staling is one issue, the others are flavor degradation, increased color pick up, oxidation, etc.

Another factor is, if a beer will be consumed within a month of kegging it, does it matter?

As I said accelerated staling is 1 issue, there are more that I listed. The beer is the sum of all parts. 

We were able to easily identify boiling differences in the raw post boil wort immediately…Let alone the other things.

Yeah, yeah, I keep trying to circumnavigate that bit Not happening. No short cuts allowed in this method…

[majorvices]

@bayareabrewer

@majorvices

@BrewBama

I’ve read that a good boil really looks more like a simmer vs a volcano.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1 - though I will say that it doesn’t really matter except for your evaporation rate calculation 9and possible scortching if it gets insanely hot). You really can’t boil too hard. The boil won’t get hotter than 212 (depending on your elevation obviously). A gentle roiling boil will give you everything you need and save you gas and from having to top off with water at the end. On my 14 gallon kettle I can get the wort about a half inch from the top of the kettle and boil for 90 minutes without having a boil over (well, mostly.) Just got to gently feather that gas regulator.

It does matter.  TBI is very real.

I agree with you that most homebrewers “overboil”, but serious question here, do you take every piece of 20th century German literature as gospel?

everyone knows Bryan is the gospel bringer on the forum now. Best not to ever argue with him despite personal experiences. Your brewing experience no longer matters. And we are all subject to ridicule because he has it all figured out. Let’s all just shut the forum down and just follow whatever he says from now on. That way we will know what is what.

[beersk]

@majorvices

@bayareabrewer

@majorvices

@BrewBama

I’ve read that a good boil really looks more like a simmer vs a volcano.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1 - though I will say that it doesn’t really matter except for your evaporation rate calculation 9and possible scortching if it gets insanely hot). You really can’t boil too hard. The boil won’t get hotter than 212 (depending on your elevation obviously). A gentle roiling boil will give you everything you need and save you gas and from having to top off with water at the end. On my 14 gallon kettle I can get the wort about a half inch from the top of the kettle and boil for 90 minutes without having a boil over (well, mostly.) Just got to gently feather that gas regulator.

It does matter.  TBI is very real.

I agree with you that most homebrewers “overboil”, but serious question here, do you take every piece of 20th century German literature as gospel?

everyone knows Bryan is the gospel bringer on the forum now. Best not to ever argue with him despite personal experiences. Your brewing experience no longer matters. And we are all subject to ridicule because he has it all figured out. Let’s all just shut the forum down and just follow whatever he says from now on. That way we will know what is what.

Bit of a troll post, no?

[system]

You know if I have learned anything people wise from this whole ordeal its this… People are interesting creatures when it comes to information presented that challenges their beliefs and we have seen it in this thread. When presented with new facts people usually take 1 of 3 paths. They chose to actually research it then make an educated decision(for or against), not research it and make a decision(for or against), or do not research it and go straight to personal attacks. It says a lot about ones character which path one chooses.

[JJeffers09]

Boiling Home Brewed Beer with Dr Charlie Bamforth - BeerSmith Podcast #121

Podcast 121, Dr. Charlie Bamforth

There is better information from this 55 minute than anything thus far on the subject, IMHO.

[hopfenundmalz]

I thought this would be about the variation in temps with altitude. Hey, I am at -198 ft elevation right now. Those Colorado breweries boil at a lower temperature.

Boil vigor is more appropriate, no?

[69franx]

Sounds about right Jeff

[Joe_T]

@majorvices

@bayareabrewer

@majorvices

@BrewBama

I’ve read that a good boil really looks more like a simmer vs a volcano.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1 - though I will say that it doesn’t really matter except for your evaporation rate calculation 9and possible scortching if it gets insanely hot). You really can’t boil too hard. The boil won’t get hotter than 212 (depending on your elevation obviously). A gentle roiling boil will give you everything you need and save you gas and from having to top off with water at the end. On my 14 gallon kettle I can get the wort about a half inch from the top of the kettle and boil for 90 minutes without having a boil over (well, mostly.) Just got to gently feather that gas regulator.

It does matter.  TBI is very real.

I agree with you that most homebrewers “overboil”, but serious question here, do you take every piece of 20th century German literature as gospel?

everyone knows Bryan is the gospel bringer on the forum now. Best not to ever argue with him despite personal experiences. Your brewing experience no longer matters. And we are all subject to ridicule because he has it all figured out. Let’s all just shut the forum down and just follow whatever he says from now on. That way we will know what is what.

She's a witch!

[mabrungard]

@hopfenundmalz

I thought this would be about the variation in temps with altitude. Hey, I am at -198 ft elevation right now. Those Colorado breweries boil at a lower temperature.

Boil vigor is more appropriate, no?

There are low vacuum brewing systems available to the big boys.

[bayareabrewer]

You know if I have learned anything people wise from this whole ordeal its this… People are interesting creatures when it comes to information presented that challenges their beliefs and we have seen it in this thread. When presented with new facts people usually take 1 of 3 paths. They chose to actually research it then make an educated decision(for or against), not research it and make a decision(for or against), or do not research it and go straight to personal attacks. It says a lot about ones character which path one chooses.

how does the old saying go, "if you smell stink everywhere you go, best to check your own shoes first.

[Joe_T]

@bayareabrewer

You know if I have learned anything people wise from this whole ordeal its this… People are interesting creatures when it comes to information presented that challenges their beliefs and we have seen it in this thread. When presented with new facts people usually take 1 of 3 paths. They chose to actually research it then make an educated decision(for or against), not research it and make a decision(for or against), or do not research it and go straight to personal attacks. It says a lot about ones character which path one chooses.

how does the old saying go, "if you smell stink everywhere you go, best to check your own shoes first.

https://goo.gl/images/5uU6PD

[stpug]

@bayareabrewer

You know if I have learned anything people wise from this whole ordeal its this… People are interesting creatures when it comes to information presented that challenges their beliefs and we have seen it in this thread. When presented with new facts people usually take 1 of 3 paths. They chose to actually research it then make an educated decision(for or against), not research it and make a decision(for or against), or do not research it and go straight to personal attacks. It says a lot about ones character which path one chooses.

how does the old saying go, "if you smell stink everywhere you go, best to check your own shoes first.

This coming from the person who just posted:

@bayareabrewer

A friend of mine is a parole agent, and he talks to some pretty crazy people at work that are violent and unstable, and part of his job is telling them the are getting a parole violation and going to jail. Needless to say, this is sure to not go over well with people that are already unstable and violent, yet he rarely gets in altercations with the parolees. His secret-it’s in the delivery. He can tell people precisely what they don’t want to hear so long as he delivers the message well.

I tell this story because I think the root cause of the occasional conflict here isn’t that people have differing brewing practices, but that the delivery of certain messages is flawed.
You can be as right as rain on a subject, but if you come across as a jerk while doing it, you probably won’t be received well.

You may very well be the worst offending member on this forum of your own quote.  Your angst towards some of the most vocal low oxygen brewers and low oxy brewing practices is perfectly clear; there’s no hiding in plain sight on this one.  Message NOT received and, in turn, …

[skatz (Stevie)]

@bayareabrewer

You know if I have learned anything people wise from this whole ordeal its this… People are interesting creatures when it comes to information presented that challenges their beliefs and we have seen it in this thread. When presented with new facts people usually take 1 of 3 paths. They chose to actually research it then make an educated decision(for or against), not research it and make a decision(for or against), or do not research it and go straight to personal attacks. It says a lot about ones character which path one chooses.

how does the old saying go, "if you smell stink everywhere you go, best to check your own shoes first.

How have you not been kicked?

[pmorrissette (Phil_M)]

@bayareabrewer

You know if I have learned anything people wise from this whole ordeal its this… People are interesting creatures when it comes to information presented that challenges their beliefs and we have seen it in this thread. When presented with new facts people usually take 1 of 3 paths. They chose to actually research it then make an educated decision(for or against), not research it and make a decision(for or against), or do not research it and go straight to personal attacks. It says a lot about ones character which path one chooses.

how does the old saying go, "if you smell stink everywhere you go, best to check your own shoes first.

How have you not been kicked?

I’m going to speak up on this too: I agree. While back, the whole forum had pitchforks out when Bryan acted this way. He seems to be making an effort to tone things down, then we have this. Can it, this forum doesn’t need trolling.

[klickitat_jim]

I know this much. There isn’t one single thing about my brewing that someone else didn’t figure out way before I did. Very little that I do did I actually figure out on my own. Almost all of it was handed to me. I try to remember that when I start thinking it’s “my” knowledge.