What would you brew for a “Big Monk” recipe? A quad?
Good luck with the bottle spunding. I’ve only had one bottle crack in some 20+ years of brewing but I still worry. I had a couple batches of saison that kept going after bottling some years ago but those were all in corked champagne bottles and they held a massive amount of carbonation. Maybe that’s the way to go.
Maybe “Big Monk” can be a spiced holiday version of “Four Monks”. Or I can call it “Jolly Monks”.
Honestly I’m conservatively estimating 3.1 vol/CO2 from 4+ vol/CO2 bottles. I think I’ll be good but I’ll take everyone’s concern into serious consideration.
If “bottle spunding” is bottling straight from the primary before the beer is fermented out, a college roommate and I bottled 6,000 quarts that way back in the day. It can be done safely but you need to be very familiar with your recipe and process.
One big drawback is there will be A LOT more sediment in each bottle.
A second drawback is that, to hit your target carbonation, you have to bottle when the beer is ready. If that’s going to be at 3:00 AM, you set your alarm.
Another option would be to let the beer ferment out and use Spiese to add fermentable extract.
I think the biggest concern is new or inexperienced Brewers doing this and not having the base of knowledge to do it safely.
You’ve obviously given it a lot of thought and have considered the risks.
Understood Joe and that’s why I definitely advocate conservatism, i.e. aiming low.
Traditional bottling procedure (transfer to bottling bucket, etc.) exposes the beer to a lot of O2. Bottling straight from the primary using this priming method reduces that considerably.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=23215.msg296546#msg296546
I prime the bottles then bottle from the valve on the BMB fermenter…
1,164 bottles done this way so far.
Question: Could a small amount of SMB in the priming syrup help scavenge O2 while the yeast is waking up to bottle carbonate? Or do you want a little O2 in there for yeast growth?
I think the main thing I’m after is replicating Trappist “re fermentation” in the bottle without having to dose with yeast and sugar at finishing gravity.
I don’t think you will want to add any unnecessary SMB to your beer unless it warrants it. I also don’t think the yeast are going to experience a “growth” phase during bottle conditioning. There are just simply not enough sugars available for them to do this. I could be wrong about this, and maybe someone else will chime in on this too.
The main driver for trying to perfect this for ales is two-fold:
1.) I’m trying to eliminate any steps that introduce Oxygen between fermentation and bottling.
2.) Natural carbonation without the addition of anything else.
Like I said in the OP, these breweries (Trappists, Duvel, St. Bernardus, etc.) are all adding yeast at bottling, sometimes primary yeast, sometimes otherwise.
The reasoning being that with most of these beers, being 7-8% and above, you get a more controlled and predictable carbonation and maturation with yeast AND sugar.
This will take some testing and observation to get right. Playing with pitch rates, trub separation, etc. will all affect the final product.
I was thinking about the yeast method for low oxygen strike water… What about a hybrid approach. Let the beer ferment out. In a bottling bucket get some bottling yeast working on a corn sugar priming solution such that it’s low oxygen and already has yeast activity when you put the fully fermented beer on it.
To me there is something about using the extract itself to do the work.
Reinheitsgebot?
I doubt it. Quality control. I can easily pick up the differences in a beers that’s were forced carbed, spunded, spiesed, and sugared.
You’re the only person I know who can do that. I had eight people try a number of years ago and none could detect a difference nor had any preference.
I could not tell a difference when normal brewing practices were used. Low oxygen it’s night and day.
How close do you think spiesed and spunded are? Spunding for bottlers is really kind of a PITA considering the timing issue. I tried krausening for bottling a few times and didn’t like the results but I think it had more to do with post-bottling temp-control than the process itself.
Not that close. I realize spunding is a pita for bottlers. But when I ran my tests of spunded vs spiesed, I much preferred spunded. The oxidation that happens when the beer is allowed to complete fermentation, then a little oxidized when the spiese is added waiting for the yeast to activate and scavenge( or use your sulfite reserves) are apparent when compared side by side. There is no replacement for spunding that I have found yet.
How much yeast are we talking with spunding in a bottle? So much so that you get a bit of gushing from nucleation on all the yeast at the bottom of the bottle?
Spiese may suit my purposes however. What I’m aiming for is more controlled oxidation-I want the oxidation to happen in the cask, after venting. (I know, oxidation on purpose may seem like a terrible idea to some. This style requires it to taste right as much as Helles requires low oxygen methods.)
The issue has been the best way to achieve this in the bottle. Get too much oxygen in, and it’s always going to taste that way. Allow a (very) limited about in, perhaps this might work.