Braumeister v. BIAB

[Clint_Yeastwood]

I returned to brewing a year ago. I started in 2002, and I quit in about 2007. I struggled with caveman tech. I had to move my mash to an Igloo cooler, sparge, and then move the wort to the kettle. Horrible.

When I returned, I thought I would take advantage of advances. I researched, and I got a used Braumeister 20L. I thought it was pretty good compared to a kettle and an Igloo, but cleaning it was a lot of work, and it didn’t like big beers.

Today I could not find an O-ring for the Braumeister, so I was forced to do BIAB. I bought a custom bag last year.

I can’t believe how easy it was. And cleanup was a joke.

Am I missing something here? The machine does a great job of managing temperatures, but other than that, it seems like a huge waste of money.

[Semper_Sitientem]

Up until two months ago I was doing BIAB until I treated myself to an early Christmas present and purchased an Anvil. Three  main reasons I went electric were; a) I’m going to be moving into a new house in a few months and will move my brewing operations to my new workshop instead of the kitchen (ok, I was told I can’t brew in the new house), b) I wanted to have better control over mash temperature and c) I wanted to streamline my process. I find that the Anvil satisfies all three. I already have a 240 outlet Im my current garage and have brewed three batches. The delayed timer function is great. My mash water is heated before I wake up. My mash temp is consistently controlled (no more insulation blankets) and the recirculation pump has improved my efficiency and wort clarity. Really, it’s the same process. Instead of brew-in-a-bag, it’s brew-in-a-basket with added bonuses.

When it comes to cleaning, I find there’s the same amount in terms of equipment. However, I find it easier since I can clean on my driveway with a hose (future workshop slop sink) and I don’t have to be as careful as I did when cleaning in the kitchen. So, for me, I feel electric has more benefits.

[profitt_chartermi.net (Kevin)]

The Braumeister IS a BIAB system using a SS malt pipe instead of a bag. Either way however is BIAB.

[lupulus]

3 types of no-sparge brewing

• Standard BIAB (no circulation)
• BIAB with circulation (variants: with or without mash cap; return to above the mash or inside the mash)
• "BIAB with reverse circulation (from the bottom) = Braumeister

Yes, of course, one can batch-sparge the grains for a few more gravity points.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)

[erockrph]

@lupulus

3 types of no-sparge brewing

• Standard BIAB (no circulation)
• BIAB with circulation (variants: with or without mash cap; return to above the mash or inside the mash)
• "BIAB with reverse circulation (from the bottom) = Braumeister

Yes, of course, one can batch-sparge the grains for a few more gravity points.

I’d even argue that for standard-gravity beers, the gravity point gain from a batch sparge is negligible if you are doing a full-volume mash. Also, if you wait to pull your grains until your temps are in the 170-175F range (easy to do in an all-in-one electric system), they drain a lot better than if you pull them at mash temps.

At least in my Foundry, cleanup is easier when I line my malt pipe with my old BIAB bag. I also mill my grains directly into the bag-lined pipe, and slide it into the strike water, which is convenient and seems to lead to less dough balls to break up. I don’t recirculate, so YMMV for your system.

[Megary]

Here’s a thought: it’s not a matter of Braumeister vs. BIAB, or Igloo vs. Brewzilla, or Lodo vs err…Not-Lodo(?), Indoor/outdoor, Gas/Electric, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc… ad nauseum.

For me it’s a matter of Homebrewing vs. Not.  And I’ll keep homebrewing as long as I’m enjoying the hobby.

Find a setup that you enjoy and run with it.  Let everyone else find theirs.  When it becomes a job, take up golf (heaven help you).

Rant over.  Sorry.

[Clint_Yeastwood]

With the Braumeister, I have to take it apart. I have to hand-wash the kettle, pipe, pipe gasket, the pump, water plumbing, lid, lifting bars, screens, perforated panels, the bar that holds the mash together, and a few hop bags. I also have to wind the cord up and plug the dryer back in.

With BIAB, I hand-washed the kettle and the lid.

I threw the mash bag and hop bags in the clothes washer. That took 8 seconds. I also had to put two towels and a blanket away. I used a spatula, which went in the dishwasher.

[reverseapachemaster]

Those eBIAB all in one systems are useful for people who can’t or don’t like to brew on an existing heat surface. Not all stoves are good options for brewing and if you’re brewing larger batches, you rule out almost everybody with an electric stove. I destroyed a burner and wiring on my old electric coil stove that way.

The other issue is that stovetop BIAB depends on your ability to maintain a consistent temperature, not scorch the bottom of the mash, etc. The all in one systems maintain temperatures a lot more precisely. I could never get good control over my mash temperatures on the stove, let alone a repeatable process.

There’s not a right or wrong answer here. Whatever works for you that makes brewing enjoyable is what you should use.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

I use a portable induction burner. It is an 1800W burner and I do 3 gallon batches.

I don’t have the best control over mash temps but it seems just as good as my old batch sparge days.

I used to have a Grainfather. It was nice, but I felt cleaning the pump was a step I wanted to drop. With my current system I pour the wort into my fermenter, give the kettle a quick scrub to clean, and the put it away. Cleaning the pump required heating PBW solution, running that through the pump, then dumping, then heating and running warm water through the pump. For me that was a 30 minute clean up process. Cleaning a kettle sans pump is much simpler and faster.

[Megary]

@reverseapachemaster

Those eBIAB all in one systems are useful for people who can’t or don’t like to brew on an existing heat surface. Not all stoves are good options for brewing and if you’re brewing larger batches, you rule out almost everybody with an electric stove. I destroyed a burner and wiring on my old electric coil stove that way.

The other issue is that stovetop BIAB depends on your ability to maintain a consistent temperature, not scorch the bottom of the mash, etc. The all in one systems maintain temperatures a lot more precisely. I could never get good control over my mash temperatures on the stove, let alone a repeatable process.

There’s not a right or wrong answer here. Whatever works for you that makes brewing enjoyable is what you should use.

I have a gas stove and it is beyond simple to keep the mash temp within .5 degrees of desired temp without the need for blankets and towels.  Occasionally setting the flame to its lowest simmer position will give me any heat I need.  The flame never hits the pot or scorches the wort or bag.  I can even push the flame a bit higher and proceed to “mash-out” if I were so inclined, without any concern for scorching.  Of course, why would I want to bother with that other than to save myself time heading to boil??

But you’re absolutely right, with an electric stove it would be far more dicey.

[reverseapachemaster]

I have a gas stove and it is beyond simple to keep the mash temp within .5 degrees of desired temp without the need for blankets and towels.  Occasionally setting the flame to its lowest simmer position will give me any heat I need.  The flame never hits the pot or scorches the wort or bag.  I can even push the flame a bit higher and proceed to “mash-out” if I were so inclined, without any concern for scorching.  Of course, why would I want to bother with that other than to save myself time heading to boil??

But you’re absolutely right, with an electric stove it would be far more dicey.

Yeah I have a gas stove now and it maintains far more stable temperatures. I also have a wok burner on it which has been fantastic for brewing.

I still use my cooler for brewing because I was never really happy with my BIAB batches but that may have a lot to do with the lack of temperature control.

[redrocker652002]

@erockrph

@lupulus

3 types of no-sparge brewing

• Standard BIAB (no circulation)
• BIAB with circulation (variants: with or without mash cap; return to above the mash or inside the mash)
• "BIAB with reverse circulation (from the bottom) = Braumeister

Yes, of course, one can batch-sparge the grains for a few more gravity points.

I’d even argue that for standard-gravity beers, the gravity point gain from a batch sparge is negligible if you are doing a full-volume mash. Also, if you wait to pull your grains until your temps are in the 170-175F range (easy to do in an all-in-one electric system), they drain a lot better than if you pull them at mash temps.

At least in my Foundry, cleanup is easier when I line my malt pipe with my old BIAB bag. I also mill my grains directly into the bag-lined pipe, and slide it into the strike water, which is convenient and seems to lead to less dough balls to break up. I don’t recirculate, so YMMV for your system.

This is something I find interesting.  So, you start the process of heating the wort for the boil and pull the bag at 170?  Then let it drain as the wort heats up?  That is something I can do, and if it helps me get more out of my beer, I am in.  Thanks.  Might give this a try.

[erockrph]

@redrocker652002

@erockrph

@lupulus

3 types of no-sparge brewing

• Standard BIAB (no circulation)
• BIAB with circulation (variants: with or without mash cap; return to above the mash or inside the mash)
• "BIAB with reverse circulation (from the bottom) = Braumeister

Yes, of course, one can batch-sparge the grains for a few more gravity points.

I’d even argue that for standard-gravity beers, the gravity point gain from a batch sparge is negligible if you are doing a full-volume mash. Also, if you wait to pull your grains until your temps are in the 170-175F range (easy to do in an all-in-one electric system), they drain a lot better than if you pull them at mash temps.

At least in my Foundry, cleanup is easier when I line my malt pipe with my old BIAB bag. I also mill my grains directly into the bag-lined pipe, and slide it into the strike water, which is convenient and seems to lead to less dough balls to break up. I don’t recirculate, so YMMV for your system.

This is something I find interesting.  So, you start the process of heating the wort for the boil and pull the bag at 170?  Then let it drain as the wort heats up?  That is something I can do, and if it helps me get more out of my beer, I am in.  Thanks.  Might give this a try.

Right, after your mash rest(s) are done, start heating to boil and pull the grain bag/pipe to drain at 170-175ish. The hotter wort is less viscous and runs off a bit easier. It’s not a huge difference, but it was enough to be noticible to me when I first tried it out.

[Clint_Yeastwood]

Speidel won’t tell me what size O-ring I had. They offered to sell me one for a couple of Euros, from Germany. I said I was in the US, and they pointed me to Morebeer. Of course, I had already tried Morebeer, and they don’t list the part.

I guess they don’t understand what Americans expect in terms of support after the sale. “Our product costs three times what it should, but it’s worth it because we have a lower standard of customer support.” If they’re going to rely on US vendors, they should force them to stock and advertise every part. Especially O-rings and gaskets, which WILL go bad eventually.

A helpful guy measured a ring for me, and it looks like 60 mm x 54mm, with a 3mm thickness. Buna should work, because it goes up to 250. I placed an Ebay order.

I wouldn’t buy one of their products again. I have no incentive. It has been lots of fun, but I can make a better machine myself for a lot less than $3K, with parts I can replace very easily on the web, and after doing a BIAB, I don’t want a machine. If mine were stolen, and someone offered me a free one, I wouldn’t take it, because I don’t want to do all the extra work. If I decided I wanted a new gadget, I’d get a Clawhammer machine for about half the price. I believe I could fix every part of that system without ever bothering the people at Clawhammer. Even if it has problems, I can modify it.

The Braumeister is a really neat machine, but I think it sells mainly because of gadget appeal. Seems to me people rationalize buying it.

It’s interesting. I can buy a full-size washing machine for $400 and change, but a Braumeister costs over 7 times that, and it’s smaller and much less complicated. Speidel was originally a stainless container company, and they appear to be making containers today, so I don’t know if they can say they’re too small to keep costs down. Other companies that only make brewing equipment beat their prices.