^This. Brew and learn I guess. Certainly an interesting technique, but kind of a pain in the butt!
+2. A PITA IMO. I’m back to mashing it all together and liking the results. Whereas you have to double your cold steep amounts, you can adjust downward mashing the grains (if need be).
I really liked the effect. It wasn’t that much more trouble. I’d do it again.
I completely agree. I did the cold steeping thing maybe a half dozen times before deciding it was too much trouble for too little benefit. I’m doing water treatment anyway, so that takes care of the issues that cold steeping is supposed to solve. If I want color without roastiness these days, I use Sinamar.
Especially when you factor in a brew session of 6+ hours from start to completely cleaned up, the idea of dealing with cold steep becomes VERY unappealing. AND, I recently brewed a RIS (http://www.klaserhausen.com/mom-and-dad/) that had a large % of dark/roasted malts, mashed traditionally, which The Stig said was “very well done” and didn’t note any astringency.
I think Denny’s correct, the real underlying issue is water chemistry, and cold steeping is just a way to avoid the issue without dealing with it. IMO having mash & sparge pH under control will keep astringency at bay, even in the darkest and most robust beers. In fact, REALLY good brewers can probably use water chemistry to get the exact roast character they want in their beers, as some do like a stout with a little harsher roast character.
Yeah, that’s what I was gonna add, Denny. As soon as I figured out to shoot for a 5.5 pH with dark beers, that took care of the issues for me. I prefer a good amount of roastiness, but I was getting more of the acrid stuff before I got a handle on pH - so for me it was a pH issue and not a ‘mashing the dark grains issue’.
I will reserve judgment until I have tried it both ways a couple times. I have no problem controlling my mash chemistry. I still was getting a hint of ash on recipes with a lot of roast grain. Not astringency but a burnt ashy note that was unpleasant. This was reduced or eliminated by the cold steep.
Additionally, I think it took an extra ten minutes tops to mill the gain and drop it in a bucket of water.
As always, do whatever gets you the results you;re looking for. In my case, I found I was able to get those results without the cold steeping.
http://www.klaserhausen.com/pretension/
This week, we made a Biere de Garde that was kind of a Biere de Meh. See the link for the full story, recipe and tasting notes below.
Recipe
12 lbs. Belgian Pilsner Malt
1 lb. U.S. Vienna Malt (it’s all I had access to at the time, oh well)
1 lb. Belgian Caramunich Malt
0.75 lb. Belgian Aromatic Malt
0.5 lb. Belgian Special B
Mash @ 147° for 90 min (single infusion, 1.5 qt/lb). Sparge with 3.9 gal
Boil for 90 minutes
1 oz Crystal (6% AA) boil for 60 minutes
1 oz Crystal boil for 10 minutes
WLP515, 1200mL starter
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.013
ABV: 7.8%
IBU: 22.5
SRM: 13
Fermentation Temp: 64-70° (lagered @ 36° for 3 weeks)
The Stig’s Tasting notes:
Aroma: Fairly clean malt character with notes of quince paste, toast, brown sugar, and toffee. Little to no hop aroma.
Appearance: Clear amber, about 11 degrees SRM. Off-white head with fine bead. Barely any head retention, no lacing, with only a faint, spotty film of foam persisting.
Flavor: Candied, fruity, subtly herbal with flavors of toffee, baked apple, and a hint of sage. Negligible perceived bitterness. Clean malt sweetness without being bread-like. A bit cloying.
Mouthfeel: Full and round, but lacking structure (could use more grain-like tannin, husk quality). Low carbonation and not quite as attenuated as the style should be. ABV is very well disguised with barely any warmth in the finish.
Overall: Really pleasant and technically well within style parameters. Personally I would prefer a drier, more attenuated, and rustic beer for this style. Could use more earthy hop and grain character, and more carbonation or acidity to break up malt sweetness. No overt or obvious flaws.
I think I would us a more earthy hop, mash at 145° and maybe even add a 1/2lb of simple sugar if I made this beer again.
A) Styrian Goldings would probably be a good choice of hop for this.
B) I don’t know how much drier a mash at 145 vs 147 is going to be
C) If you’re looking for more of a husky, grainy note try swapping your Belgian Pils for Floor-Malted Bo Pils malt. I find that I get quite a bit of that husky/grainy thing from it.
D) Try shooting for a mash pH on the low end (5.3ish) if you’re not doing that already
A) Yeah, that hop is based on Fuggle I think
B) It will certainly be drier, if only 1-2 points of gravity drier. But that may make the difference. I also said adding some simple sugars would also help
C) I haven’t heard of this malt, thanks for the tip, I’ll look into that!
D) My mash pH was in control at the time, but I was using strips to monitor and they sucked. So I don’t really know with any confidence what my mash pH was. I have a digital pH meter now.
Thanks for the tips, Cheers!
I would be amazed if you could tell the difference between those mash temps. The difference is well within the margin of error of measurement.
Not when you own a Thermapen!!! http://www.thermoworks.com/products/thermapen/splashproof_thermapen.html
Ok guys, this week: A friend had twins so I brewed him and his wife a Dubbel! http://www.klaserhausen.com/family²/
Recipe
11 lbs. Belgian Pilsner Malt
1 lb. Aromatic Malt
0.75 lb. Special B
0.5 lb. Rice Hulls
1 lb. Belgian Candi Syrup 45L (added before boil)
Mash @ 149° for 90 minutes, single infusion (1.5 qt/lb) sparge with 4.5 gal Boil for 90 minutes
4mL CO2 Hop Extract boil for 60 minutes
1 oz German Tettnang (3.9% AA) boil for 10 minutes
WLP500, 2000ml starter
OG: 1.073
FG: 1.010
ABV: 8.6%
IBU: 21.4
SRM: 16
Fermentation Temperature: 65-70°
The Stig
Some say that He was immaculately conceived, and that He reproduces asexually. All we know is, He’s called The Stig!
Aroma: Raisins, dark rum, brown sugar, butterscotch, cloves, ripe banana, baked apple, and a noticeable amount of fusel alcohol.
Appearance: Almost clear, russet brown/reddish tinged deep amber ~ 18 degrees SRM. No head retention, burnt orange foam that dissipates quickly to reveal a glassy body.
Flavor: Dates, sweetened almonds, dark rum, and cloves. If it were a bit less boozy it would have flavors very reminiscent of mincemeat pie. It is boozy, however, and this lends a sharp, overtly alcoholic character.
Mouthfeel: Thin for the style and not enough carbonation. Hot/boozy, and slick on the palate.
Overall Impression: Great aromatics despite fusels. Front end of palate has requisite flavor profile for Abbey Dubbel, but the middle and finish on this beer is lost to overwhelming alcohol flavors and sensations. Seems as though fermentation got away from intended levels. Which might have resulted in a lower than desired final gravity, yielding a beer without enough body and residual sugars. Perhaps a higher mash temp would serve this beer well – limiting final gravity and providing a more substantial mouthfeel.
looking forward to following this effort 
THANKS FOR DOING THIS ! I just stumbled across your blog today, and I think your project is pretty awesome !
I also appreciate the draft of the 2014 BJCP Styles Guidelines.
CHEERS !
Thanks! Glad you like it. Happy brewing!
It’s that time again!
www.klaserhausen.com/submariner
In this article, I brewed a beer to honor all Submariners!
Below is the recipe and The Stig’s tasting notes.
20 lbs. U.S. 2-row
1.5 lbs. 10L crystal
1.5 lbs. 80L crystal
Mash @ 150° for 90 min (1.3 qt/lb), sparge with 3.4 gal
Boil for 90 minutes
15mL CO2 Hop Extract boil for 60 min (~62 IBU contribution)
1 oz Calypso (15.6%) boil for 20 min
1 oz Centennial (10.5%) & Citra (14.4%) boil for 10 min
1 oz Cascade (5.5%) & Amarillo (8.7%) boil for 5 min
WLP090 San Diego Super, 2 vials & 1300mL starter w/nutrients Fermentation Temp: 65-68°
1st Round dry hop 1 oz Belma & Citra for 3 days
2nd Round dry hop 1 oz Amarillo & Cascade for 3 days
OG: 1.103 FG: 1.020 ABV: 12.1% IBU: 104 SRM: 14.7
Aroma – Roasted cacao beans, over-ripe banana, cinnamon, baked red apple / red apple skins. Also, quite a bit of fusel alcohol. Note after warming all the way up to room temperature, some sulfur notes (sulfidic: raw egg, mild sewer gas) are perceptible. Could be the product of stressed out yeast which is easy to do in such a strong beer, also could be the sign of the beer being too young, or “green.” Spending more time on the lees in secondary, as well as pitching more yeast (or a strain that is more resilient in environments that are highly alcoholic) for such a massive beer could mitigate this flaw.
Appearance – Approximately 14 degrees SRM. Russet/Medium Brown body with patchwork , off white head. No lacing or head retention to speak of. Glassy, almost iridescent top layer, has glassy texture – most likely due to high alcohol content.
Flavor – Much of what is present as far as aromatics are also there on front palette. However, all those delicious flavors are overpowered by the hot, boozy alcohol presence. Also, overly bitter. The powerful ABV, along with the lack of malt flavor and depth, allows the hop bitterness to become overtly apparent.
Mouthfeel – Again, way too much perceived alcohol. This highly attenuated beer is left with a slick, thin mouthfeel that is very warming and practically astringent/medicinal.
Overall Impression – Clearly there is a lot of potential for this beer, as it starts out with fantastic aromatics and flavors. The lack of balance, which is particularly difficult to dial in for high ABV beers, is where this barleywine falls short. I feel that if this beer could be more in the 9-10% ABV range, it would benefit from more malt character, providing depth and a much needed counterpoint to its massive IBU count. Despite the trend of American style barleywines being excessive in practically every way, the best examples almost always exhibit a tenuous balance between the drastic levels of malt sweetness and hop bitterness. Perhaps you could include less kettle additions and more late hopping to not only lessen the IBUs, but also provide more hop flavor and aromas. I think Chinook would work very well with this beer as a late addition hop.
Were you a “bubblehead?”
Yes I was. 7 patrols on the USS Tennessee.