So, today I am brewing a Schwarzbier. It’s a recipe I based loosely on others in the style with the substitution of Midnight Wheat for another roasted or highly kilned malt for the color. Midnight Wheat is less roasty than other roast style malts IMO but wheat doesn’t necessarily belong in a Schwarzbier, so… Oh well. I won’t tell.
I am also trying a new (to me) technique. I normally heat my water to 114°F and add 2 g per gallon yeast and sugar and allow it to sit there 20 min to consume O2 (YOS method). Then, I increase temp to my strike temp before underletting the mash. This is where I deviated. Instead of heating to strike temp, I decided to simply underlet with my 114°F brewhaus liquor and heat the entire mash to mash temp via the HERMS.
It took the HERMS ~35 minutes to bring the mash to 150°F. Recall, I add roast malts at the end of the mash for an additional 30 min ‘hot recirculation’ so my mash is normally 90 min total — recirculating the entire mash. That’s been working really well for me.
This mash will be 114°-150°F for 35 min, 150°F for 25 min, add the Midnight Wheat at 150°F for 30 min. The ‘rolling’ step was ~1°F increase per minute (36°F over ~35 min).
So, I either completely screwed up or just found a new way (for me) to do some sort of ‘rolling’ step mash.
Disclaimer: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV
I don’t start so low, but I use a (more or less) continuous ramp through the mash with my Anvil. My mashes start in the mid-140’s, then I set the controller to 162 at 60% power. Since I don’t recirculate, I get a fair amount of stratification. Once the PID hits the target I stir the mash, which lowers the temp back down. I then bump the temp a few degrees and let it go again. After about 90 minutes I’m up to 175F and pull my grain.
I’m not proposing that this is some great new technique that everyone should run out and try, but I’m happy with the efficiency and body I’ve been getting in my beers, and I enjoy the process. Hopefully you have good results from your ramped mash.
I have used Midnight Wheat a lot for coloration - I like the results. As to the steady ramp - when I use my HERMS, I will often do my mash in that manner - starting a bit lower than typical (low 140’s) and cut down the intensity of the heating of the HLT water with the HERMS coil in it, so that the recirculating mash slowly climbs up to 170 (over 75-90 minutes). Alternatively, I will do a Hochkurz step mash, which is higher intensity and faster to get there between steps.
But I have gone back to single infusion and batch sparging a lot more than anything else anymore.
I have used a ramp method in my eBIAB several times, usually start with a strike temp od 130-135, mash in and let it rise to my final mash temp, whatever it may be, and hang out there for 45-60 min.
Question on your YOS technique. Do you happen to have a DO meter or ORP to confirm the YOS is done after 20 minutes? I think I’m going to try this higher temp for my next brew. At 105 it takes me over 2 hours to get the ORP where I want it. Sure would be nice to speed this part up.
After de-oxygenating, does the agitation from underletting and stirring the mash re-introduce O2 in a measurable way? Further, how much DO exists in water heated to mash temps? I moved away from pre-boiling and chilling to strike temp quite a while ago, because I found no noticeable benefit to it, but that was without any means to measure. So, I was shooting in the dark…maybe I should give the yeast scavenging approach once again. If so, do you treat the water with salt additions before or after the yeast and sugar treatment?
Great questions. It’s like golf, once you learn to hit the ball, then you can put that out of your mind and start playing the game. I added these techniques to my process so I can put O2 aside and brew beer. It made brewing easier and more fun for me.
A note I received from Joe Formanek back in Feb ‘21 says in part, “a combination of oxygen reduction and ion removal is the best case scenario.“
I trust Joe. So, after the 20 min YOS rest I add Brewtan B to the strike liquor then underlet the grain where I’ve added ~50 ppm Ca and a tsp of Ascorbic Acid. I do not add KMeta because I’ve ruined beers with it. The Trifecta so often cited (KMeta + BtB + AA) became an Exacta (BtB + AA) in my brewery.
DO of water heated to mash temp is ~5 ppm as far as I could discern. Others may know more about this than I do.
Underletting is suppose to drive O2 upward and out of the mash. I don’t know if that is a fact or not but I do it because I’m not interested in lifting 7 gal of hot water to pour it in the MLT. Again, it’s easier for me to slowly underlet plus I haven’t seen a dough ball since I began doing it this way. Win-win in my book.
I stir very little. Just to ensure the grain is thoroughly saturated as the MLT is filling. I recirculate during the entire mash with the return below the liquid level in the MLT.
Again, not sure it helps or not but it’s cheap and easy and I quit worrying about O2.
I did do a blind triangle test between two beers of the same recipe: one brewed by me on my system using my methods and one brewed by Tommy on his system using his methods. Apple and Oranges maybe but I couldn’t tell them apart. If there was a difference, it was so slight that I wouldn’t change a thing in either.
I made a few changes to my brewing several batches ago, incorporating sugar and yeast to the strike water the evening before, then heating it to mash-in temperature and underletting the grist in the morning with minimal stirring. It’s pretty easy and doesn’t cost much. I have no idea if it reduces oxygen because I don’t have a DO meter.
I have been treating the water at the same time as I add the sugar and yeast (CaCl or CaSO4 and lactic acid). Is there a reason that you add yours to the grist instead of the liquor?
I’ve never used brewtan B. I may get some.
I add CaCl and/or gypsum and AA to the top of the milled grain so when I pour the grain from my milling bucket into the MLT it ends up on or near the bottom of the MLT.
I do it that way because it’s easier for me. I use teaspoons and just pull it from the bag and throw it on top of the grain.
My thinking is as the brewhaus liquor is added it mixes with the water treatments and creates the mash liquor.
Disclaimer: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV
I often underlet when I am transferring to a separate mash tun (usually only on 10 gallon batches), rather than in my strike water when using my Foundry Anvil system (all in one). While doughballs are diminished with the underlet mash, I find that it somewhat depends on the maltster as to whether my preferred crush will result in some doughballs. A good stirring usually resolves all issues and I will stir the mash well at least 3 time during the course of the mash, trying not to splash unduly, but not getting too worked up about it. Brew tan B is definitely my every brew addition - typically one gram in the mash and one at the end of the boil before the whirlfloc. I think I will try the YOS (added the night before) and Ascorbic Acid (in the mash) on my next brew day.
I kegged the Schwarzbier today. It started at 1.051 and ended at 1.011 using W34/70.
Next up: Olde Bailey Golden Ale. Old Bailey is the Criminal Court in London named for the street it’s on. Plus it’s named for our 17 yr old dog Bailey who we had to put down recently. We got her Veterans’ Day weekend 2005 so this will be my Veteran’s Day beer featuring Vet Blend hops. With each purchase they give a contribution to Veteran causes.
Disclaimer: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV
Amber Ale today. I asked a local brewery for some tips on brewing an Amber like theirs. This is my second. My first attempt was quite close. Today I am setting off a bit on my own direction.
1052 OG, 40 IBU
67% Two-row pale
5% Munich 2
8% Victory
17% C40
3% C120
Magnum for bittering addition
Lupomax Cascade @ 5 and dry hops
Verdant IPA yeast.
Brewed on 10/3 and kegged on 10/8. Fast! I have a beer that I brewed on 10/4 and looks finished now but I want to give it another day or so, then cold crash for a couple of days before kegging.
That looks very similar to my version of Amber but you’re a little higher on the IBU(s). I got the technique of light and dark C malt in an Amber from Brewing Classic Styles. Some say choose one and go with it but I like that combo except I use a bit less light and a little more dark. I sub in/out Amber, Biscuit, Mecca Grade 44, DRC, etc from the base from time to time just to play.
I agree and was pleasantly surprised. The 22 grams of W34/70 chewed thru the wort nicely at 55°F. When I found out there’s room in German brewing literature for fermenting this warm I jumped on it. It’s sitting at 34°F now.
I rarely harvest yeast but I decided to keep this batch because I have a string of lagers coming after a Golden Ale which I believe will be a quick turn around.
I just kicked a keg of Amber but I’ll let this Schwarzbier lager a cpl weeks before I even think about giving it a taste. I have a Golden Promise/Loral SMaSH that’ll hold me over till then.
The big difference for me is the percentage of caramel and victory. BCS definitely uses those, but in smaller quantities.
This was the quote I got from a pro brewer regarding a beer I enjoy: “No roast malts, you want about 30% Amber/caramel malts.” There was more than that in his email, but this part freed me to go higher on the caramel to get color and flavor and to stop using dark malts for color. That works for me.
The first time I followed the advice above I used 20% caramel malts and 10% victory. The beer was great, but this time I decided to back down on the victory just a bit to 8%.
I just happened to brew Schlitz Gusto from the BYO Clone book on 10/2 and it had an almost identical mash in temperature and schedule as your beer. I used the overnight YOS method 1g/gal and .45g SMB in the mashtun just before underlettting. I had almost identical ramp times with my direct propane fired mashtun. It was a smooth brew day and I ended up 5 points higher, there might be something to this old school method.
I repitched Verdant, pressurized the 2.5 gal headspace to 1 psi with pure oxygen and topped it to 15 psi with co2 after a few hours. I let it go to 28 psi at high kräusen and stay there until kegged. This schedule with this yeast makes for a really clean beer that turns around very, very fast. The samples were a huge hit with everyone on Sunday 10/9.
I want to explore this mash schedule with the Helles I brew regularly and see what affect it has. My guess is the limit dextrinase is really going to get a chance to chew if I use the typical 10% distillers malt in the grist. Time will tell.
