Hey guys using BeerSmith2 - what are you doing for whirlpool additions? I generally have a difference in perception of bitterness in my brews. Current IIPA is a 80IBUs 0.96:1 BU:GU and it drinks much like an APA. Not sweet but fruity. Now 2oz in the whirlpool for 20 mins @170F gives me ~19IBUs and I am not getting that in the finished product. How can I adjust the bitterness contributions from what I am perceive in the final product? What do you do?
I’ve set my whirlpool to 0.
I’ve adjusted IBU contribution of whirlpool/steeping hops at 170°F down to 5% in BS2, which generally equates to a very small amount of additional IBU contribution (i.e. 2-5 IBUs). Based on previous reading, isomerization of hop alpha/beta acids really trails off below 180°F, so I took a guess of 5% at 170. Overall, I would say the approximations I get are adequate.
TBT, it’s all a guessing game with IBU contribution from hops anyway. Let your palate guide the way.
I set flameout/whirlpool hops for 4 minutes boiling time in beersmith.
Same. I know a few extra IBUs probably calculate but I whirlpool cool enough not to notice much (if any) bump in bitterness.
Edit - IBU are just a number anyway - perceiving them is totally relative to your grist, water chemistry,etc. Imagine 100 IBU in an all RedX base vs a Briess 2 row base.
Good point…
same here. I drop to 180 before throwing in the WP hops, so I don’t expect much IBUs out of them.
I zero the AA% for whirlpool so that the IBUs calculate to 0.
+1
Why quibble? What you get from whirlpooling is all good! If you are getting too much bitterness, dial back your other additions. If you want flavor and aroma, don’t spare the whirlpools.
I don’t enjoy bitterness, harsh bitterness is a flaw IMHO. It’s not everyone’s goal to make a less bitter IPA but it is mine. I enjoy the fruit esters and aromas of what is available to us now-a-days
I set it to zero. The way he’s trying to fudge factor makes absolutely no sense. There’s no reason for a whirlpool addition to contribute more bitterness than a 5 minute flameout addition. It should be treated as a flameout addition, with a multiplier at the very least.
With that said, we know basically nothing about how boil off rates, kettle geometry, boil pH, protein content, or varying temperatures impact isomerization. It’s all guess work, and a cool temp <180F whirlpool addition is going to contribute minimal bitterness, if any.
Hey man, IBUS are just a construct. Stop trying to harsh my mellow.
I appreciate all the advice guys. Off to brew another! Cheers
I’d say use whatever makes sense to you. Calculated IBUS are arbitrary anyway, only useful to the brewer.
Good point
+1 When I was in the Army I crewed helicopters. One of my jobs was to ‘call slingloads’. What that means is I laid on the floor of the acft and told the pilot how high the load was off the ground so we didn’t slam it into something, namely the earth. Of course, I had no idea how high the load was off the ground because I have no references so the term 10’ really meant some increment I associate with 10’. I think of IBU(s) the same way: that grain bill + that hop bill/schedule = this bitterness. After a while you get calibrated. Like calling a sling load.
Watched Master and Commander the other night, again. There’s a scene where a kid is measuring speed with a knotted rope. 5 knots slip through your hand in X time equals 5 knots. Now imagine using someone else’s knotted rope, tied at different intervals. Holy crap, now we’re doing 8 knots! Or the anchor at the end is different, or your hour glass is smaller… As long as you use the same knotted rope with the same Anchor and same hour glass you will eventually going to be able to roughly predict your time to destination
I would bet the British Navy was pretty exact about the size/type of rope, the interval between knots, and the weight of the anchor. I’m sure there was margin of error and all that, but these guys also navigated with sextants and pretty much got where they planned to go.
Totally, and all analogies are only good to a point. In this case, the hop computers, our individual brewing systems, variations in alphas, etc… way more variables than the knotted rope analogy. That’s why I said imagine grabbing a rope with a different… blah blah blah
Just giving you the business… I get your point about brewing software. For me, it’s really just a guide and a convenient way to record my recipes. If my results are different from anticipated, I adjust the recipe to get what I want next time.
That would be harder to do with a knoted rope in the middle of the ocean…
Ha! Awesome
I think if the OP perceives whirlpool hops as more bitter than others do, then he’s not wrong about what he perceives. Adjusting the % of isomerization to reflect what he’s perceiving would totally be the thing he should do. Adjust the knotted rope till the measured speed seems to fit what you are seeing, then stick with that for planning future voyages.