Can someone refresh my memory regarding S-04?

[denny]

@ScallyWag

So you guys who are aging barleywines for a year or 2 (or more), what temperature are you storing them at for the interim?

I’ve got some I made about 6 months ago, my first time attempting this style, and I’ve got about half of the bottles in a fridge at 35 degrees, and the other half in my basement fermenting area which is currently about 60, and will reach about 63 in August before declining into the mid-50s next winter (which is about where the bottles started out 6 months ago).

I’ve tried a few bottles already, and they’re pretty good now… but I’ll try not to drink them all too early.

For me, coolish room temp.  Maybe around 60F.

[TXFlyGuy (Bel Air Brewing)]

@ScallyWag

So you guys who are aging barleywines for a year or 2 (or more), what temperature are you storing them at for the interim?

I’ve got some I made about 6 months ago, my first time attempting this style, and I’ve got about half of the bottles in a fridge at 35 degrees, and the other half in my basement fermenting area which is currently about 60, and will reach about 63 in August before declining into the mid-50s next winter (which is about where the bottles started out 6 months ago).

I’ve tried a few bottles already, and they’re pretty good now… but I’ll try not to drink them all too early.

Initially, the temp was 31 F. For many months. Now it is stored at 35-38 F.

Watched a long interview with Charlie Bamforth. He discussed the negative impact of elevated temperature on beer over long term storage. It convinced me to keep the beer cold, real cold, regardless of how long you want to age / store it.

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@ScallyWag

So you guys who are aging barleywines for a year or 2 (or more), what temperature are you storing them at for the interim?

I’ve got some I made about 6 months ago, my first time attempting this style, and I’ve got about half of the bottles in a fridge at 35 degrees, and the other half in my basement fermenting area which is currently about 60, and will reach about 63 in August before declining into the mid-50s next winter (which is about where the bottles started out 6 months ago).

I’ve tried a few bottles already, and they’re pretty good now… but I’ll try not to drink them all too early.

Initially, the temp was 31 F. For many months. Now it is stored at 35-38 F.

Watched a long interview with Charlie Bamforth. He discussed the negative impact of elevated temperature on beer over long term storage. It convinced me to keep the beer cold, real cold, regardless of how long you want to age / store it.

It also depends on what storage capacity you have. Currently I brew beer in the 4-6% range, a month’s worth at a time, so no long tome storage issues.
I don’t know when (if) I’ll ever have the ability to age anything at low temperature.

[ScallyWag]

@Village_Taphouse

@Village_Taphouse

Guys:  I am updating this thread after making SEVEN batches of ale using S-04 over the course of about 8-9 weeks.  A pale ale, a bitter, a blonde ale, a dark ale, another pale ale, an American wheat and a cream ale.  The first batch of pale ale is already gone and it was delicious.  If I concentrated very hard I would pick up some slight diacetyl but that wasn’t every time I drank it.  No sign of it in the bitter and the blonde ale (with Liberty) was put on tap last night… no diacetyl at all.  But I have to comment on the character that this yeast brings… it’s fantastic.  It has such a nice, bready character.  No real estery nonsense going on and it drops like a rock.  I let it ferment on the lower level of my place (probably in the low 60s) for a couple days and then moved it upstairs.  I feel like S-04 is going to be my go-to dry ale yeast going forward after this run of beers.  The description on the Fermentis website says “English and American styles” and I agree with that.  A smidge more “English” than you might get in a BRY-97 or US-05, 1056, WLP001 but that’s okay with me.  Cheers Beerheads.

Thanks for the follow-up.  I have to say, the few times (twice) that I have used S-04, it has been a bit of a disappointment.  I’m certainly willing to accept Brewer’s error as the reason, but I have found it rather low attenuating (68% in a Stout and 68% in a Brown), a bit sludgy in the fermenter, yeasty, and lacking in the fruity/floral notes (as per Fermentis’s description).  Maybe a Stout and a Brown were just awful choices for this yeast and your (lighter, less roasty) beers play to this yeast’s strengths??  Not sure, but I think you are persuading me to give S-04 another shot.

The Fermentis site says the attenuation is 73-82% and I swear I laughed out loud when I read that because it’s seems VERY optimistic.

So, VillageTaphouse:  what attenuations were you getting from this most recent group of S-04s?  (I see Steve Ruch was getting 72% to 82%, with a 75% noted in there.)  Given the recent change in this strain that some are alluding to, I was wondering if older experiences of AA% are still reliable.

I had no intention of trying S-04 in the near future, but now maybe I might.

ETA: also, I just saw Dave [dmtaylor] mention on another thread that he is consistently getting 78%-80% recently.  Might have to try a few generations of this.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

I just brewed an Amber Ale and a bitter with S04.  Bother we’re mashed at about 151F for 60 minutes. Both had approximately 8% caramel malts, 91% base malts, and 1% roasted malts for color. Both had 83% apparent attenuation.

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

I just got 82% on my last batch with S-04, went from 1.073 to 1.013.  This was a Munich based beer that I mashed at 150 F for 65 minutes.  A different batch before that got 78%.  This is a good yeast.  Unlike some other yeasts, this one drops crystal clear after a few days; however I do have a chill haze on the current batch, not sure why, it does clear as it warms.

Still no fruitiness, no diacetyl, no sulfur, nothing off.  Very neutral, like you wish US-05 was but isn’t.

[ScallyWag]

I just brewed an Amber Ale and a bitter with S04.  Bother we’re mashed at about 151F for 60 minutes. Both had approximately 8% caramel malts, 91% base malts, and 1% roasted malts for color. Both had 83% apparent attenuation.

Wow, nice!  That’s very close to where I’d be hoping for (and I would likely be a % or three less on the Crystal).

Thanks, Tommy.  I will have to do a series of split-batch comparisons with it.  This could potentially simplify my yeast arsenal in a good way.

[denny]

I think people put too much emphasis on yeast attenuation rating. It’s simply a way of comparing one yeast to another and doesn’t necessarikky have my bearing on the attenuation you can expect. I’ve had the experience of the same yeast giving me both 65 and 85%. I feel it’s as least, if not more, dependent on wort.

[Megary]

@denny

I think people put too much emphasis on yeast attenuation rating. It’s simply a way of comparing one yeast to another and doesn’t necessarikky have my bearing on the attenuation you can expect. I’ve had the experience of the same yeast giving me both 65 and 85%. I feel it’s as least, if not more, dependent on wort.

Agree.
I’ve used S-04 twice, both times in a Stout.  I got 68% each time.  ;D

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

@denny

I think people put too much emphasis on yeast attenuation rating. It’s simply a way of comparing one yeast to another and doesn’t necessarikky have my bearing on the attenuation you can expect. I’ve had the experience of the same yeast giving me both 65 and 85%. I feel it’s as least, if not more, dependent on wort.

Agree.
I’ve used S-04 twice, both times in a Stout.  I got 68% each time.  ;D

That’s why I tried to describe the co tent of my wort with info about the ingredients and mash temp.

I just want the beer to taste good.

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

I think tracking the average attenuation of S-04 in particular, and how it’s clear to many that it’s changed, over time, helps prove that it’s not the same yeast strain today as it was 10-20 years ago.  There can be merit in paying attenuation to such things.  Not to every little anecdote, of course, but the overall trend of many people & many batches.

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

I got 76% the last time I used s-04 in a Summer Ale (Apr ‘21).