Candi Syrup Substitute

I add it with about 10 min. left in the boil. I pull some wort and stir it into the sugar first so it dissolves easily.

Besides ABV, what does it do for the beer ?

Thanks

Reduces the body. Makes the beer what the Belgians call “digestible”. My tripel uses table sugar as 20% of total fermentables

ok, so on the topic of homemade “candi syrup” and sugars

does anyone have flavour descriptions for pattinson style invert sugar?

Im interested in using some, but what will i get from it? i tried googling even on other forums and couldnt find a flavour profile especially homemade invert ie. cook it in the oven at 240F for 2 hours

would love info on this

edit: WARNING some people on this link are saying the oven method is potentially dangerous

nice flavour description “dry, sort of funny taste” wow thats helpful lol, though they do say it is not toffeeish/caramelly

edit 2: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/made-simple-invert-sugars-jeff-alworths-method.628857/

this guy, who i recall from this forum being pretty legit has some good descriptions and he recorded his perceptions of taste of cooking piloncillo. ive always wanted to use latin american/south american compressed raw sugar but havent. the one i got tastes really good but has a hint of anise to it which i have been too worried about getting in 20 litres of beer. if youve ever drank a lot of ouzo you may know what i mean.

British brewing syrups are different from Belgian syrups. Those British syrups are designed to lighten the beer and add color but not really flavor in the same way as Belgian syrups. I would not use them interchangeably.

I’ve tried using piloncillo in beers and never liked the results. I’ve tried some commercial beers with it that were ok at best. Piloncillo is kinda all over the map in quality. Some of the more refined varieties are closer to date sugar. Some are more coarse and add a lot of minerality in the beer, especially if you try to boil it down into a thick syrup. Never had any taste close to Belgian syrups.

I use a lot of the Beckers invert syrups that AiH sells, and they definitely add flavor. I think there would be a color difference, but Invert #2 would probably pass for D-45 in a blind tasting at 10% of the fermentables. I don’t know if Invert #3 would quite pass for D-90 (it is in a similar flavor ballpark), but it might be close enough in a pinch. The darker syrups (D180/D240) are certainly a whole different animal, and I doubt you could get there with a traditional British-style invert.

I have done that as well.  But a lot of times I stir it in slowly about halfway through the boil so I don’t scorch it.  As Denny said, it dissolves pretty easily in hot wort.

Could be dangerous, I never found where that was explained.

That’s fair. I tend to forget they make lighter syrups that are more akin to British syrups.

D-45 in particular is underappreciated. It adds a bit of color and a light toffee flavor without leaving any extra body or residual sweetness. I’ve used it in Belgian Pale Ales and DIPA’s to kind of take the place of a low-color crystal malt and still get high attenuation.

[quote=“hopfenundmalz, post:28, topic:32657, username:hopfenundmalz”]

yeah, i err on the side of caution when it comes to heat/fire/burns. me? im not going to try this, since what people are saying is that the long-process dark inverts are not bringing the same flavour equivalent as candi syrup (alkalized+amino acids creating mellanoidin flavours).

related to oven+heat+cookware.

just a few weeks ago had a pork roast that had been in the oven cooking on a rack resting on a glass-pyrex cooking tray for about 4 hours, took it out to rest at the end. noticed some burnt juice stuff at the bottom and had the thought “ill add some water to start getting rid of that mess now”.

it exploded instantly and im really lucky none of the glass shards hit me. as in violently exploded. crazy.

[quote=“fredthecat, post:31, topic:32657, username:fredthecat”]

I’ve done the oven method at least 4 times, using an enameled Dutch Oven. It works. I’ve read we bought about the process to know that one doesn’t add water to 240⁰F Sugar, it will flash boil in an instant. Let it cool before adding water. Wear protective gear. Don’t pour the hot sugar into glass jars, let it cool.

The flavors between invert sugars and the Candi Sugars may be different, but the flavors of the British ales and Belgian beers are also different.

Great time for me to read this thread, as I’ve been itching to brew a dubbel, but am out of dark candi syrup. I do have Becker’s Invert #3 in hand, so I am going to go with that, some Special B, and a touch of chocolate wheat for color. Wish me luck.

thoughts on this, i know its a really old one but i noticed it as a bookmark I had.

does anyone have experience with this DAP+ sugar method?

I know the new one involves small amounts of food grade lime/lye + DME + sugar - but i honestly havent been able to find food grade lye.

Haven’t made it,  but I’ve tasted versions others made. Nothing like commercial candi syrup.

interesting, as in just different or lacking the flavour development? did you mean just the DAP + sugar version?

is the lye + DME + sugar one any good or do you have thoughts on most flavourful sugars other than candi syrup ($$) ?

Invert sugar, perhaps?

They just didn’t have the same flavor. IMO, there are no substitutes for D90, 180, and 240.

That’s basically what the homemade ones are. Probably OK for British styles, but nowhere what you need for Belgians.

I haven’t made any of the DIY Candi Syrup/Invert Sugar recipes out there, but I’ve used the commercial versions extensively and they just aren’t the same. Invert sugars are very toffee/caramel like, while Candi Syrups have more dark fruit (fig/plum/raisin). Even the D-45 Candi Syrup, which is close to an Invert #2 in color, has a different flavor to it. There has to be a process or ingredient difference between the two. If I had to guess, it seems like Candi Syrup has a bit of scorching or maybe oxidation to it to generate those different flavors.