Clarifying agents

[jkirkham (James K)]

I am wondering the difference between some clarifying agents. I typically use whirl flock at 10 minutes or so and have also used gelatin in secondary instead of whirlflock. Never in a keg.

Are there benefits to using more than one clarifying agent when you brew and move on to kegging or bottling?
I am in the process of fermenting a lager and have have great success with clear beers in the past.

I used whirl flock for this recipe and have never used two agents in a beer before, should I? Or is it unnecessary?

[klickitat_jim]

I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don’t see a difference with OR without. Maybe I’ve fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

OP says he’s doing a lager, which has me wondering: I use (exclusively) Weihenstephan 34/70.  The strain is extremely powdery –  one of its virtues – but – it doesn’t clear even with up to 4 weeks lagering, so I remove it with filtration.  I wouldn’t mind avoiding that.  Would gelatin in  lagering effectively do that?  I want crystal clear!

[klickitat_jim]

In my experience, gelatined pale lager beer is clear a little faster than non gelatined, but after a month or so of cold storage they are the same.

I use 2206 for lagers these days

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

Right now drinking a Kellerbier, 24 days at 29°-30°F an unfiltered.  Don’t know how well You can see it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V7Jn4RbIjbtpGR0X7wZ8zEI7h8wJeaeX/view?usp=drivesdk

[jkirkham (James K)]

OP says he’s doing a lager, which has me wondering: I use (exclusively) Weihenstephan 34/70.  The strain is extremely powdery –  one of its virtues – but – it doesn’t clear even with up to 4 weeks lagering, so I remove it with filtration.  I wouldn’t mind avoiding that.  Would gelatin in  lagering effectively do that?  I want crystal clear!

This is the strain I am using. Right now it’s at 50* fermenting low. I’ll crash it and throw it in secondary in a few weeks.

I could gelatin in secondary? I suppose I’ll see how clear it gets in secondary and then decide.

[jkirkham (James K)]

@klickitat_jim

I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don’t see a difference with OR without. Maybe I’ve fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Some beers I don’t use any fining agents, like neipa. I do like clarity though.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@jkirkham

@klickitat_jim

I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don’t see a difference with OR without. Maybe I’ve fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Some beers I don’t use any fining agents, like neipa. I do like clarity though.

Yeah, the Kellerbier was kind of a one-off, my Pils, Helles etc need crystal clarity.  Lagering easily removes chill haze, but 34/70 not.

[jkirkham (James K)]

@jkirkham

@klickitat_jim

I use wirlfloc in every boil. I used to use gelatin at the end of primary but I made the mistake of smelling it once. I really don’t see a difference with OR without. Maybe I’ve fixed some upstream problems along the way and no longer need it.

Some beers I don’t use any fining agents, like neipa. I do like clarity though.

Yeah, the Kellerbier was kind of a one-off, my Pils, Helles etc need crystal clarity.  Lagering easily removes chill haze, but 34/70 not.

Is Time the only thing that will remove chill haze besides filtration? I don’t have a filter. Ha.
I mad going to see what happens, but after secondary I am thinking about gelatin in a keg, never done it, wanna try.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

With good malt, good mash/sparge/boil and Irish moss (I use the regular kind not whirlfloc*) you might pretty well eliminate chill haze, but cold time will settle any that’s left  out.  Filtering just separates what lies above from what settled out. Racking might do the same, but yeast remains the problem for me.  I used to use gelatin AND filter, but realized this was just an extra load on the filter.  Never just gelatin.  So I’m wondering. (I remember the method, but don’t even remember the dosage for gelatin. )

*Reason is that Irish moss is not very selective, it removes foam active proteins as well as haze active, so you want to use the minimum effective dose and no more.  It’s easy to weigh out Irish moss flakes and properly hydrate them, while Whirlfloc tablets are a massive overdose unless you grind them up and weigh it out. PITA.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

[klickitat_jim]

I cut them in half with a pill cutter.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@goschman

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

I’ll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I’ll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What’s the dosage?

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

@goschman

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

I’ll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I’ll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What’s the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

I decide to make a NEIPA clear. It took a couple of extra days but worked like a charm.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@goschman

@goschman

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

I’ll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I’ll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What’s the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

That sounds simple. I used to boil water, then bring it down to 160 and add pre-bloomed gel.  Guess it might reduce 02 that way.  Anybody have a dose in g/gallon?  And is there any difference between racking beer onto gelatin and adding gelatin to racked beer?

[JT]

@goschman

@goschman

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

I’ll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I’ll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What’s the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

That sounds simple. I used to boil water, then bring it down to 160 and add pre-bloomed gel.  Guess it might reduce 02 that way.  Anybody have a dose in g/gallon?  And is there any difference between racking beer onto gelatin and adding gelatin to racked beer?

The trick with gelatin is to get your beer COLD first.  I added the still hot mixture straight to a carboy or keg.  Clear in 48 hours.  Brilliant unless than a week.  I’m moving away from it though in my quest to eliminate cold side o2 pick up.  I’m not lodo brewing, but cold side elimination just seems like good practice.  Thinking about trying out the Clear Beer draught system.
That said, if you need clear in a hurry, gelatin is your weapon. 
I placed BOS in competition with a very fresh Kölsch that was gelatin fined in the carboy before racking to a purged keg.

“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@JT

@goschman

@goschman

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

I’ll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I’ll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What’s the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

That sounds simple. I used to boil water, then bring it down to 160 and add pre-bloomed gel.  Guess it might reduce 02 that way.  Anybody have a dose in g/gallon?  And is there any difference between racking beer onto gelatin and adding gelatin to racked beer?

The trick with gelatin is to get your beer COLD first.  I added the still hot mixture straight to a carboy or keg.  Clear in 48 hours.  Brilliant unless than a week.  I’m moving away from it though in my quest to eliminate cold side o2 pick up.  I’m not lodo brewing, but cold side elimination just seems like good practice.  Thinking about trying out the Clear Beer draught system.
That said, if you need clear in a hurry, gelatin is your weapon. 
I placed BOS in competition with a very fresh Kölsch that was gelatin fined in the carboy before racking to a purged keg.

“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

JT,  here was my thought on how to minimize 02: Purge keg with sanitizer.  Leaving ~1psi on the gas in, remove liquid dip tube, introduce gelatin (having boiled water for blooming) with one of those big syringes you find in the paint department at the big box, and replace with my trimmed dip tube.  Proceed with closed transfer from fermentor to keg.  (Beer will indeed be cold.) Wait 3 weeks and jump to serving keg and carbonate.  BTW this will be the 2nd Pils with the simplified mash –  maybe I can really simplify and improve! (The total O2 pickup should be less than filtering.  I’m not on the LODO bus either, but why add it gratuitously!)

Still looking for g/gallon.

[JT]

@JT

@goschman

@goschman

I use whirlfloc and gelatin after cold crashing for a couple of days. Never had an issue getting 34/70 very clear very quickly.

I have switched to S189 which gives me a little more problems…

I’ll be transferring a Pils to lagering next week. Used Irish moss as usual in the kettle. Maybe I’ll give gelatin a try in cold storage, then jump kegs and carbonate.  What’s the dosage?

I use 1 tsp in 1/2 cup of water. I let it “bloom” at room temp for about 15 minutes before heating it to 150-160F in the microwave. I think I might use more than most but it works for me.

That sounds simple. I used to boil water, then bring it down to 160 and add pre-bloomed gel.  Guess it might reduce 02 that way.  Anybody have a dose in g/gallon?  And is there any difference between racking beer onto gelatin and adding gelatin to racked beer?

The trick with gelatin is to get your beer COLD first.  I added the still hot mixture straight to a carboy or keg.  Clear in 48 hours.  Brilliant unless than a week.  I’m moving away from it though in my quest to eliminate cold side o2 pick up.  I’m not lodo brewing, but cold side elimination just seems like good practice.  Thinking about trying out the Clear Beer draught system.
That said, if you need clear in a hurry, gelatin is your weapon. 
I placed BOS in competition with a very fresh Kölsch that was gelatin fined in the carboy before racking to a purged keg.

“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

JT,  here was my thought on how to minimize 02: Purge keg with sanitizer.  Leaving ~1psi on the gas in, remove liquid dip tube, introduce gelatin (having boiled water for blooming) with one of those big syringes you find in the paint department at the big box, and replace with my trimmed dip tube.  Proceed with closed transfer from fermentor to keg.  (Beer will indeed be cold.) Wait 3 weeks and jump to serving keg and carbonate.  BTW this will be the 2nd Pils with the simplified mash –  maybe I can really simplify and improve! (The total O2 pickup should be less than filtering.  I’m not on the LODO bus either, but why add it gratuitously!)

Still looking for g/gallon.

How to Clear Your Beer with Gelatin – Bertus Brewery

This was pretty much my process except I preboiled the water (again, to try to remove o2).  I believe Jon used to use a large syringe through the PRV. 
I preferred the results of adding gelatin to the fermenter, but then wouldn’t reuse the yeast.  Adding to the keg works just fine too, but there is quite a bit of sludge on the bottom.

“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

^^^^
JT, yeah, can’t add to fermentor because repitching is central to my system (generation 11 in fermentor now, hope it’s still early days on this culture. ) I know gelatin leaves a fluffy sediment,  hoping 1" trim on dip tube will have me covered.  Thoughts?

[hopfenundmalz]

Polyclar will remove chill haze.

Lagering at 30F will drop out 34/70, in my experience.