Here is what I have plugged into beer smith, but the IBU’s show so low. The website says 28 IBU’s, but beersmith only shows 8. Is this a calculation error on part of the 0 min addition? I’m using regar.
Recipe: Ellies Brown orginal
Style: American Brown Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Recipe Specifications
Boil Size: 6.46 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.46 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 4.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 23.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 8.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs 2.6 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.6 %
13.1 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.2 %
9.8 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.1 %
6.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.1 %
0.13 oz Bullion [7.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 4.6 IBUs
0.32 oz Sterling [5.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 3.9 IBUs
1.01 oz Sterling [5.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs
Also, I could find Bullion so I was thinking Northern Brewer.
E-mail the brewery and see if they whirlpool before the send through the heat exchanger. That can add significant IBUs as compared to the calculations. Also ask if the number on their page was from the production beers lab analysis or a calculation.
Change the 0 minute addition to a 15 or 20 minute addition and see how that changes the IBU. If it is close to your target of 28, then you need to do a hop stand after flameout. The time of the stand will depend on your system. If you have a pump you can recirculate to get some whirl pooling going. This will have to be some trial and error.
I do post boil whirlpools often, usually around 45 minutes. It is a way to replicate what the pros do on their systems.
Also, that 60 min addition (.13 oz of a 7.6 AA hop) is tiny. If you aren’t comfortable with or don’t want to do a hopstand, you could raise the 60 min addition in Beersmith until you get to your 28 IBU target, leaving all the other hops as is. I bet it’s closer to an ounce and a half.
How you have your IBU calculated on Beersmith could have something to do with it as well. Beersmith default is Tinseth, so if you changed that to Rager or Garetz, or they use a different calculation then you, it can have an effect as well. Just a thought.
that is true, but if you look at the recipe, it has less than half an ounce of mid Alpha acid hops in the entire boil.
a guy in my brewclub went on Avery’s tour last year and he said they do use a massive whirlpool. I’m guessing they get most of the bittering from there. if you do a 1 hour hopstand, you could approximate the bitterness of the flameout addition in between a 15-20min addition - but even at that I don’t see how you get to 28 ibus total (can’t do the calculation on this computer >:( ) - just to see the calculation, try inputting the 1oz sterling in as a 20min addition to see what it might contribute.
if that’s not it, then I’m suspect that maybe Avery just literally scaled down their recipes - IIRC on very big setups (30bbl +) that pros get higher utilization from hops, which might also explain things ?
Did the recipe give AA values for the hops they use? My Sterlings are 7.1% AA, which brings you a bit closer. Using Brewer’s Friend, a quick calculation shows that if you hit 14% utilization on your whirlpool you’ll get to the IBU target you’re looking for. (Sorry, have to post a screenshot - text export is working funky for whirlpool hops):
Tinseth is most accurate on my system for the boil additions. None of the calculators have predictions for a hop stand/whirlpool addition.
You could use your favorite calculation algorithm for the following. Keep the hop additions in the same ratio. Have your 0 minute as a 15 or 20 minute, it is a swag on your system. Increase all of the additions by affixed percentage and see where you end up. Try 50%, Looking at the last post, maybe try 75%. Then fine tune it to hit the target IBU, by going up or down a smaller fixed percentage for each. That should balance the bitterness and flavor/aroma from the additions.
Paul is correct that large brewing systems get better hop utilization. We will all have different utilization on our specific systems with our specific techniques.
Saw erockrph’s post, which is very good input. Hey - Brewer’s Friend does a whirlpool calculation, who knew. What time do they assume, or do you enter that in there.
Basically you enter your own time and starting temp, but those are just for reference. You need to enter a utilization %, and that is all it uses to calculate IBU’s.
I don’t use this feature myself, however, as it doesn’t calculate any increased utilization from your boil additions using this function. It more closely approximates if you runoff and whirlpool in a separate tank. There is a different feature for “No Chill” brewers where you add an estimate of additional boil time to estimate additional utilization, and it bumps all your hop additions by that amount, so that’s what I use. I usually use 1/3 my hop stand time, but others find that 1/2 the hop stand time is a better estimate for their system.
Well it seems like you guys nailed it with whirlpool adding more IBUs. I received a reply from Matt at Avery:
"You raise a very valid point with our clone recipes. The fact of the matter is alpha acid utilization doesn’t scale down very well (or well at all), nor do the processes involved. The recipes on the website are solely a guide and knowing all of the different ways of doing things out there, it would be impossible to come up with an exact clone recipe for everyone.
Also, concerning processes, I would like to add we are brewing on a two vessel system and our kettle doubles as our whirlpool. This means we have a residency of over 1.5 hours of hops sitting in near boiling wort after we kill the boil and add our aroma addition; therefore, we get a ton of IBUs from our aroma addition. We have done extensive testing with our IPA on the lab’s spectrophotometer and actually exit the kettle at ~130 IBUs but the yeast does a great job of bringing them down to ~70…but that’s another story. In fact, due to the amount of time in the kettle/whirlpool we get over 75% of our IBUs from the aroma addition.
Thanks for the inquiry and if you have any other questions please don’t hesitate to ask.
With this information I messaged Tasty McDole and told me when he was doing the CYBI show they would would add flame out hops at 20 mins to go to compensate for 30 mins of whirlpool.
