I’m not making claims nor am I speaking from a position of authority. I said it was conceivable (Able to be grasped mentally though perhaps not in reality).
How much liquid do you purposefully place in your decoction when using the strainer?
Are you boiling on a stove top or a gas flame. Depending on the pot type, an electric element would create hot spots at a temperature capable of caramelization. I know it does when I boil down a volume of wort and end up with spots of charred/caramelized material (A thin stainless pot.)
I have read up to 1/3 liquid and 2/3 grains. I eyeball it. Pulling with the strainer you don’t get enough liquid and it can be a bitch to stir. With the right amount of liquid it can be stirred before it loosens up at high temperature. Too little liquid and you can scorch a decoction - not recommended.
Lately the decoctions have been on a gas stove, and in a 5 gallon Revere Ware pot - copper clad bottom. Stirred, no scorching or deposits on the bottom.
I’ve burnt up a decoction pretty bad (my first one) the thick portion was too thick… lol no amount of constant stirring helped… I even chucked the pot afterwards lol.
I used a large ladle and just scooped up grains and then used the side of the mash tun to pour the liquid out of the ladle. There was very little liquid actually in there… Lesson learned lol.
When I have decocted, there is always some moisture present (enough to avoid scorching with a medium heat to raise the mass to a boil relatively easily but not rapidly). And as the temperature rises, the mass becomes more easily stirred, which I take to mean that moisture is being released as perhaps cell walls are breaking down, but I have nothing conclusive on that.
An acquaintance with a German brewing background says that Helles and Maibock require a decoction to achieve the complexity of the malt flavor (avoids one dimensional flavor profile), but bocks are permissible to be decocted or even double decocted to enhance the malt complexity and bread like flavor as are Dunkel styles. Newer malts are modified sufficiently to mash without temperature steps, but decocting to raise the mash temp at the end achieves both aims of the step mash and decoction malt effect. He favors a protein rest despite the evidence that it is not necessary, suggesting that it still has a subtle effect on the Helles and Maibock flavor profile. So, I guess reasonable minds can differ on this one.
Somewhere above it asked how the “decoction makes maltier” idea got started. My take on that question (with likely, little basis in fact 8^) ) is the original lagers were malty and were decocted so “decoction = malty”. We all know that decoction was originally the only way to get poorly malted grains to convert enough starch to make a decent beer. With today’s malts decoction isn’t really required but is traditionally the way you brew certain beer styles. It does seem to make minor contributions in flavor but isn’t really required to get the results you are looking for.
Basically it fits in the do it the way you want category for me. RDWHAHB.
The question here is “How are malt flavors developed during a decoction?”
Malt flavors come from the malting process not the decoction process.
When it is said that malt flavors are developed or even enhanced in the environment of a decoction boil as opposed to the environment of a kiln… well those two are exact opposite environments.
There is no air/water exchange (evaporation) present to cause those reactions in a decoction.
It seems the most that can be claimed for a decoction are very very minor maillard reactions (if any) only if the boil is long enough. The caramelization thing is mostly bunk as was presented earlier in this thread. Those two seem dependent on the boil kettle environment and the heat source/heat exchange method used.
Agreed. Early lager styles were malty because they used less hops, higher kilned malts and were bigger beers. Decoction is just a method of mashing that happens to up the extract a bit.
After about 30 minutes of boiling a decoction you can see it darken. I think this is the malliard reaction? I have found that a single 30 min decoction increases my SRM 2-3 points over a single infusion mash. I can’t say its maltier but its different or maybe more complex. Many claim a pinch of melanoiden malt does the same.
I’ve been searching for those videos, thanks for posting!
I tapped a helles last night and, damn if it doesn’t have that German lager flavor I’ve been looking for. It’s amazing.
Just did a Hochkurz step infusion mash… maybe decoction adds something to beer, maybe not, but great lagers can be made without it. I certainly would not say decoction is the “missing link” to brewing spot-on German lagers.
Yup there’s something going on there, though I don’t know if it’s Maillard Reactions or a change in density of the solution as more starches/proteins diffuse into the liquid and water evaporates from the top of the kettle or something else entirely.
Just like a reduction boil for a Scottish ale adds complexity to the flavor profile beyond merely concentration of wort, I believe that there may be something to a decoction that involves the flavor profile complexity changed as a result of the process. Again, I have no science to back it up, but flavor comparisons (admittedly not blind triangle) seem to bear some of this it out.
Yeah, everybody believes that…until they test it! FWIW, I’ve decided that starting in the fall I’m gonna redo my old decoction experiment. I’ll be looking for others to do it, too. I’ll put out a call for volunteers once I’m ready.
I’m not sure a double blind triangle test is an accurate representation of the results because everyone has different levels of tastes etc… though it is a fun and interesting exercise and perhaps it’s the best we have.
A better method would be to utilize a lab to measure what’s actually happening but that costs money and would require some financial backing by an organization that supports brewing and brewers and of course you’d then need scientific people to write up the experiments, etc… that would certainly give some closure to the discussion. Ahh well maybe some phd or masters degree student will undertake the challenge, financing it with a grant from an organization that supports brewing and brewers. Or maybe some old retired guys will do the same with a grant from the same organization thus immortalizing themselves in the annals of brewing.
