I need to brew a DoppelBock (club competition), and decoction is not something I’ve done before and I’d like to give it a try.
I’m reading through Kai’s documentation on Braukaiser.com and am thinking about a double or enhanced double decoction. Does anyone know if I will get more complexity if I take the time to do the longer decoction?
Other questions:
Is there a recommended way for accounting for volume loss of the heated decoction, i.e., how much will it affect the pre-boil gravity? I can plan it out but typically I end up needing to adjust either temps and times at some point. I don’t have the best heat control when stepping up a mash on an outdoor burner.
Can someone get by with using a cooler as the primary mash tun, or do both tuns need burners?
Lastly, I’ve never done proper checking for starch conversion, and Kai mentions testing for this. Given that I’m working with fully modified malt, is it preferred to do this vs simply tracking time?
I’d suggest a Hochkurz double decoction, starting with a rest between 140-146 for 20 minutes, then decoct, boil for 10 minutes or however long you can manage, add back till you get to 158-162, hold that for 45 minutes, decoct liquid portion of mash, boil for a bit, then add back to get to 168.
I think some refer to this as a single decoction, but to me, it’s a double, since you’re removing a thin mash as well as a thick mash.
Either way, I don’t do them anymore as I always miss my next rest temps due to loss of heat during the decoction boil and perhaps not taking enough decoction out in the first place (even though I take almost all of the thick mash out I can). I do step mashes these days, typically of that same Hochkurz procedure using infusions.
You can have boiling water handy in case you miss your temps, but I always seem to miss them anyway, ugh. With fully modified malt, it’s debatable whether decoction adds anything to the finished product other than YOU know that it was decocted and it’s another layer of involvement you can have with your beer. It’s fun to do once in a while, but I don’t think it’s worth it to do for most beers. A step mash or single infusion gets you there.
Decoction improves your efficiency a little, so plan for that. You might also lose a little volume depending on how long you boil your decoctions. Just have boiling water ready. Michael Dawson did a decoction episode on Brewing TV a while back where he said to pull 1 quart per pound of grist for each decoction. So that’s a starting point. Good luck.
Thanks guys, I’ll roll with the Hochkurz double decoction and see how it goes. I figured I’d pull enough wort to where the grist is still covered and have better temperature control using a cooler as the primary tun.
I’ll have time to let it lager and so I am targeting something that’ll mellow but not loose too much complexity.
Oh and I’ suggest wrapping the mashtun in blankets for more insulation. I always have the problem of losing too much heat in the main mash while the decoction in boiling, then not having enough decoction to bring it up to my next rest temp. It’s kind of hard to do when my grist is 7 pounds for a 4 gallon batch. I think it’s just not big enough a batch to work, as it hasn’t yet, even though I seem to pull nearly all the thick mash out…
Oh well, I’m cool with step infusions as I’ve read that many German breweries mostly perform step infusions these days. Who knows though…
I’ve insulated mashtuns (using redwood) but only get success with that in windless and somewhat warm environment (outside is usually 55-65 degrees and gusty). I’m back to using coolers as temp is easier to control. The tip of having boiling water on the side is something I’ll follow.
AFAIK, decoction and doppelbock comes down to two camps. Kinda need to see an n-factor experiment to validate. Randy Mosher writes (Radical Brewing) that the mash-in temp needs to be 95 when there’s a lot of Munich (and good water quality, i.e., PH), where as others say mash in once at 155 (re: Brewing Doppelbock: Tips from the Pros - Brew Your Own).
BTW, Here’s the recipe so far, thinking that I should sub Vienna for the Pils. Looking for an OG around 1.079:
Randy Mosher is probably recommending a triple decoction if he says to mash in at 95. I’d personally mash at 145 for 20-30 minutes, decoct, bring up to 158-162, let rest for 45, then pull thin mash of maybe 4 quarts or so, boil, and bring up to 168 for 10 minutes. Boil the decoctions as long as you can manage and stir like mad, constantly (for the thick decoction). If you can get it, use dehusked Carafa III instead of chocolate malt. But, I suppose chocolate malt would work fine in that small quantity as well.
One kettle I have is an old 5 gallon SS copper clad Revere Ware that I picked up for fairly cheap. That is my decoction kettle. No scorching problems to date, and I stir at a moderate to slowish pace.
Ah, well maybe I’m over doing it when I stir. I have a very thick bottomed 3 gallon kettle that I use for my decoctions. I want to say it’s a sandwich of stainless and aluminum. Next decoction I do I’ll back it off. Just hate standing over a hot, boiling kettle having to constantly stir for 10+ minutes. It’s brutal.
Ha! Was waiting for you to come in and say that! As Michael Dawson says on the “Decoction Day” episode of Brewing TV, “it’s just another layer of involvement you can have with your beer”. Whether you feel it adds anything or not, it’s fun to do on occasion, I think.
Do you feel the same way about step mashes? Feel they add nothing?
I’m with you there. I have done it enough and, like Denny, don’t know if I think there’s a tremendous flavor benefit to it. The last time I did a decoction, I took stirring out of the mix. It was a simple mash out decoction for flavor only. I filled a stainless bowl with thick mash, covered it loosely with foil, and set it in the pressure cooker. 15 minutes at 15 psi and I got some nice darkening to my grist. Smelled amazing, too. No stirring, no scorching, no problem. YMMV
Next time, I’m going to source a larger inner container so I can decoct a larger volume. This was a good first experiment, however.
I seem to recall somebody did a side by side comparison of a beer with a decoction mash and a step mash with melanoidin malt and had a bunch of people judge the beer and people noticed a difference but thought the melanoidin malt beer was smoother and more pleasant. I seem to think Nateo posted it on his blog a long time ago but I haven’t seen him around these parts in a while.
Outside of maybe making more starches easily available for conversion, I’m not a huge believer that decoction mashes offer a lot that a step mash doesn’t but there is probably a subtle difference. I imagine very long boils on the decoction probably makes more of a difference but a 10-15 minute boil probably isn’t creating as many flavor compounds. I do know some pro brewers swear by decoction mashes when using undermodified malt. I can see the need for the decoctions to help with conversion.
Since I don’t have mash tuns that sit on burners I have to do my step mashes by decoction or infusion. I’ve never made a beer with a decoction mash I disliked but I also haven’t found that magic touch either.
I have made a bopils with a double Hochkurz decoction and have made that same bopils with a temp controlled step mash at the same temps. No difference for my pallet and, frankly, I recall the latter to have been a better beer. That said, the helles that I did this quick and easy decoction on was a very fine beer and had some subtle nuances that the same beer with melenoiden malt just doesn’t have (I’m not saying that melenoiden malt attributes flavors resembling decocted beers).
In my opinion, a traditional blood sweat and tears decoction isn’t worth my effort. But the pressure cooker method is so easy that I may get a portable electric burner so I can do it right next to the brew rig on occasion. Even after 15 minutes, there was a noticeable aroma on the decocted grist that the rest of the mash just didn’t have.
