what happened to suregork? he hasnt updated in years afaik?
Dave,
IMO, VERY, VERY interesting.
Is there anyway to download the chart (not simply print, but download)? I am only able to view the chart at YEAST MASTER by David M. Taylor 2019-01-12 - Google Sheets
Also, am I understanding correctly US-05 is NOT WLP001 nor Wyeast 1056?
Thanks for this most interesting information and work.
The link you posted is outdated. Make sure you use the one at YEAST MASTER by David M Taylor Perma-Living - Google Sheets
It should be downloadable. I know others have been able to do so successfully.
All of the so-called Chico yeasts are closely related but maybe not as closely as we originally thought.
I know the exact origin of 05. All I can say is that originally it was damn close to 1056. It may have drifted since then.
Dave,
Unfortunately, I still am not seeing where to download using the link in the reply.
At upper-left corner, click File, then Download, then Microsoft Excel.
Got it. Thanks!
If you scroll down a ways, the color key is buried in some of the text (EDIT: post updated with newer version YEAST MASTER by David M Taylor Perma-Living - Google Sheets):
The legend looks much different today. It makes me sad that some people aren’t looking at the updated version here (which has been updated like 131 times over the past 5 years):
(or here: )
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I don’t know how google docs works with revisions, but maybe you can update the contents at the old/outdated link with just the YEAST MASTER by David M Taylor Perma-Living - Google Sheets link?
And, nice work on that yeast chart! Super helpful!
Hey Dave, thanks again for this. I feel like we still actually have a long way to go in creating sort of crossreferencable yeast info online like this.
I started some notes and average attenuations and even my perceptions of fermentation on a bunch of yeasts. I might look at it, clean it up and send it to you if you want to add that info in, if not because it doesnt fit - no problem, i dont mind.
To anyone interested…
This week I have added “equivalents” for several new manufacturers, namely: Imperial, Omega, and Escarpment.
I hope you enjoy. And please, if you do side-by-side split-batch yeast experiments with “equivalent” yeasts, any reports on differences are interesting and can be considered as input. Or if you have any other feedback, I’m always around. Cheers.
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Can you point out which part of Kerruish indicates that WLP041 is Smithwicks? All I see is that both are descendants of Whitbread B
Also interested where you got the info that Escarpment American Ale is equivalent to WLP008 rather than WLP019
I’ll do my best…
The Kerruish et al. study used the old 2016 Gallone et al. study as a basis and basically used the same “beer000” format to label the strains. As you probably know, Suregork (Kristoffer Krogerus) soon decoded some of the “beer000” format labels to equate them to White Labs numbers. One example of this is “beer066” which equates to WLP041. Screen shots of some references from 2016 Gallone and Suregork:
Now look at the shape of that family tree in green. Then look at the same family tree chart from Kerruish (now in black instead of Gallone’s green).
Conclusion: Smithwick’s is definitely very closely related to “beer066” which is almost definitely WLP041.
Regarding Escarpment American Ale… other than Escarpment themselves calling out WLP008 specifically… I figured that on the whole, Escarpment copycats White Labs slightly more often than Wyeast… and Escarpment equates their American Ale to be equivalent to WLP008 and 1272, but this goes against my long-figured belief that 1272 is probably WLP019, and WLP008 does not equal WLP019, so Escarpment has to be one or the other, and since they say it’s WLP008, then let’s just go with that. Could I be wrong? Of course. Odds might even be close to 50/50 that it’s actually 1272, and odds are likely also that I’m wrong about WLP019 = 1272. But whatever the answer is… it’s in this ballpark somewhere. And of course, I can always say with confidence that no “equivalent” yeasts are EVER actually truly equivalent… except perhaps in the case of Mangrove Jack or similar where they literally just repack yeasts from others and don’t produce new products in most cases except for possible blends of existing products.
So anyway. There is some sleuthing and intuitive guessing involved here. But I like to think it is educated and informed guesswork. And in the end, it is MY table. I’m just letting everybody look at it. And am open to feedback from credible sources or real-world experiences (particularly where attenuation values and flavor characteristics don’t match between strains in side by side split-batch comparisons).
Cheers! And WELCOME TO THE FORUM! Good to have you here.
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Thanks. I’ve tried to ask Escarpment directly about some of their yeasts and they were very reluctant to give any useful info. FWIW the listed specs and description of their American Ale yeast sound closer to 1272 than WLP008 (marketed as clean rather than hazy). Guess I’ll just have to try it, my local store doesn’t stock other liquid manufacturers anymore.
I should add, I have a feeling that Escarpment didn’t list WLP019 on their equivalence chart because it’s a vault yeast, not commercially available. But it’s far from the only head scratcher on that chart so who knows.
Any chance you know anything about their EL-D1 dry yeast “House Ale?” A seminar about it called it British in origin, with Chico-like character
This is the first I’ve heard of EL-D1. It’s probably another version of “Chico” similar to US-05 or BRY-97, but this is only a wild guess at this point.
it appears to be produced by Lallemand, but not identical to BRY-97. I picked up a pack to try for my next IPA.
I would wager it’s one of the Whitbread B descendants
edit: verbally, he said it used to be in their liquid yeast catalog so it’s possibly the discontinued Escarpment Northwest Ale (wishful thinking on my part?). I’m pretty familiar with WY1332 so when I get around to trying it I’ll compare to that.
I think you’re right. I’m willing to bet on it. I’ve updated my sheet saying I think EL-D1 is approximately equivalent to WLP041 and 1332.
Thank you very much for the input.
May have jumped the gun a bit, Escarpment rep tells me it’s related but from a different branch a little further up the tree. He also says American Ale is a little closer to Northwest Ale than EL-D1 is
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