Just a thought, would mashing results be similar to soaking a tea bag? The length you steep a tea bag determines the amount of flavor and color to a certain extent, would this somewhat be the same with mashing grains?
I’ve read about people trying to push the limits of mash times mostly on the short side to save time but I’m wondering if that is hurting flavor extraction?
In my experience, once you’ve mashed for an “appropriate” time, you’ve converted all of the starches available, and further mashing doesn’t do much. “Appropriate” mash time probably varies according to your equipment setup, temps, volumes, etc., but once you’re done, you’re done.
It’s not effectively different for tea bags, if you steep as long as you mash; tea steeped for one hour isn’t that different from tea steeped for two.
It’s a fair question, but in my experience the opposite is true. And here’s why & how, in my opinion:
Since you really don’t want to mash for any less than 20 minutes, there is plenty of time for the malt flavors to get fully incorporated into the wort, such that waiting for much longer than that doesn’t help at all. No one is advocating only mashing for 3-4 minutes like tea. The grains are always in there for a much longer time.
Also, since a longer mash time increases efficiency while a shorter mash time reduces efficiency, then the brewer who mashes for a shorter time generally needs to use MORE malt to hit the same OG, thus theoretically adding MORE malt flavor! And the reverse is true as well, longer mash time means you don’t need as much malt, which can dilute your malt flavor, at least in theory. I have run experiments on this in the past that were not conclusive, need to run more.
I generally mash for 90 minutes while I am getting everything else ready for the brew day. It does make for a slightly longer day.
It gives me time to do other things too while the mash does it’s thing.
I have always had good results so I’m sticking with it … 
No because the mash is doing more than just extracting flavor from the grain. There is also the release of enzymes and starches that are subsequently converted to sugars. As that process extends through time you are more likely to get a drier beer as the long chain sugars continue to be broken down and the wort becomes increasingly fermentable. Usually a malty beer needs some of those long chain sugars for body and residual sweetness.
Not particularly, because what brewers are looking for is starch conversion to maltose. Once it’s converted, letting the malt sit longer provides diminishing returns in most cases. Eventually, you will start to extract tannins from the husks (and it will start to taste exactly like tea, ironically). In other words, those flavors you’ll extract won’t help your beer.
+1
Wouldn’t the length of mash also depend on how well your mash tun holds temperature? Say I’m making a really malt-heavy beer and mash high. Say 156 F. If I mash for 30 min, it is likely that I’ll end up with lower efficiency. If I mash for 60 min in a tun that doesn’t lose much temperature-wise, I’d likely get the same result at 156 F. If I mash for 80-90 min in a tun that loses 4-6 degrees over that time then I’m potentially activating more beta amylase at the end of the mash due to the dropping temperature and making for a more fermentable wort and higher efficiency. Just some thoughts.
I did a quick gallon batch last night on the stovetop with a 30 min mash at 156F. Efficiency was lower but I already had a good handle on my average PPG from previous batches so I hit my expected OG right on.
My understanding is that your beta activity is gone around ~30 min depending on several factors… maybe a little sooner or later than that. So it will be long gone by 80 minutes.
Let’s not confuse body and flavor. Mashing long can result in more complete dextrin conversion, which can translate to thinner body. But even if you used a mash schedule that increased body, that wouldn’t necessarily result in an increase in malt flavor. Any time you want to influence flavor, think recipe first and foremost.
Once enzymes are denatured, they are denatured.
Ah… I didn’t think about this. So beta is not active if the temp starts high and then drops?
Plus 1 to Dennys comment.
And Toby is right, but its not like a light switch. When ONE enzym is denatured that enzyme stays denatured, but THEY dont all denature instantly at a bright line specific temp. At a certain temp THEY begin to denature. Given enough time at that temp eventually they all will be denatured. Remember the chart Denny has posted in the past. There are overlapping areas for alpha and beta and overlapping areas for temp and ph. Its not like the light switch, click its on, click its off.
What Jim said. It’s not all denatured instantly, but if you hold temp above the denature point for an extended period of time, you’re not going to get much activity from that particular enzyme.
Well stated, because of issues beyond my control, my imperial stout mashed for almost 5 hrs. The resulting beer
Tastes the same as when I made it before. The body however was much thinner and dry. I almost liked it better actually.
Thanks guys, I guess there’s a lot more to it than just making tea.
I tend to mash for about 8 hours and haven’t noticed any increase in maltiness. I have noticed an increase in efficiency over 1 hour mashes, so there does seem to a bit more conversion after the hour is up. (See also Kai’s graphs of attenuation & efficiency for different mash lengths up to 6 hours Effects_of_mash_parameters_on_attenuation_and_efficiency, but his small samples let the temp drop steeply and his enzymes weren’t fully denatured). I suspect my extra efficiency might be coming from the more coarsely ground bits malt that sugars seep out of more slowly. My beers tend to finish 1010 and I suspect might finish a bit higher if I mashed just one hour.
“Malty” seems to mean different things to different people. Some people describe a beer with a high FG and plenty of residual dextrins as malty, though I would call it full bodied. Other people describe the caramel/raisin flavours from medium or dark crystal malt as malty. However, I tend to think of malty beers as those with lots of maillard reaction flavours, e.g. continental beers made with Munich malt or aromatic/melanoidin malt. As Denny said, flavour comes from your recipe, not the mash length.
I overnight mash all the time. Typically the mash starts at around 7-8PM and I drain the tun at 6AM the next day. I have not noticed any problems. My efficiency is very good but I’m not sure how much I can really attribute that to mash length. I’m not sure if the beer is more fermentable but if it is I don’t think it is a lot more. I don’t end up with much drier beer than anyone else as far as I can tell. tannins haven’t seemed to be a problem. overall it works well with my schedule to do this which is the main reason I do it.
I’d agree that any differences are small. When I started overnight mashing I used a high mash temp to compensate for what I thought might be a more fermentable wort, but I then ended up with very full-bodied lager. Now I dough in at standard temp.