Topic
I haven’t found one.
Most people don’t hold at mashout temperature for long enough to get any benefits anyway so skipping it usually isn’t noticed. If you step mash already, which many do, holding at mashout for >= 10 minutes is another tool in the dynamite foam toolbox. As always, YMMV.
I mash off at 170°F, transfer to lauter tun, and sparge at 170°F. I have tried skipping the mash off and got significantly lower yield, probably because the temperature drop in the transfer increases viscosity, and despite the sparge temperature the goods never warm up enough again, I suppose. I guess if you’re using a single vessel the sparge will raise the temperature sufficiently to maintain good flow and diffusion of extract. So yeah, YMMV.
The only downside is the possible loss of a couple potential gravity points. That potential increases if your sacc rest temperature is on the low side. If you’re mashing in the mid to upper 150’s, then the loss is probably minor.
My alpha rest is at 162°F, which is about ideal for running off. It is indeed a loss of only a couple of gravity points I saw when not mashing off before transfer. (I guess it’s a matter of opinion whether that’s significant. ) So if you can hit that temperature for runoff with no mash off, you probably wouldn’t see any loss. It’s my understanding that a lot of the big breweries end their programs around 163°F. ( I get the idea I’m in the minority using a mash kettle and separate lauter tun. )
This^^^
I do see a difference in my foam using this method. Worth the extra efforts IMO.
As far as I can tall, viscosit doesn’t enter into it. The limit of sugar solubility at mash temps would require a 1.300 gravity. Unless your wort eceeds that, increasing the temp won’t allow you to get any more sugar out.
Thanks for that info, Denny. But something is affecting yield, and I’m curious what it is. Maybe Martin could elaborate? He addressed this. As to Jeff’s observation on foam: I guess even if your alpha rest is on the low side, if you mash off you at least pass through the 162°-163°F range and gain some benefit in glycoprotein development.
What I found by checking conversion efficiency is that the hotter temp is increasing conversion slightly. So it’s more that additonal sugar is being created more than you’re drawing more out of the mash.
You mean, one last burst off alpha activity before it’s denatured?
Yep, that’s what it looks like to me.
Interesting and thanks.
I meant to dig out my old refractometer today and compare the mash before and after the mash off. Forgot.
Curious about this!
My impression is that the increase is due to the extra heat extracting a bit more from the kernals.
Mash out or don’t mash out. It makes no difference. You may notice a drop in efficiency but if you plan for the efficiency that you get, then it shouldn’t matter. Don’t confuse efficiency with quality. You can get a great beer with a 55% efficiency and absolute crap with 80% efficiency. If the beer you make is great with no mash out, then don’t mash out. I used to mash out when I had a cooler mash tun with no recirc. The results weren’t worth the effort. Now I have a keggle mash tun with a herms set up. My mash outs now have a significant impact in efficiency. I’d have to ask my friends if my beer quality is for s–t. I’ve also made some great no sparge batches with like 60% efficiency but the beers were off the chain. I’d focus on something more important like what music you were listening to when you were mashing. I’d like to suggest you listen to either Tribe Called Quest, Led Zepellin IV, or Ras Michael and the Sons of Negus.
I think that one of the important things to remember (and possibly to differentiate between) here is how we are all using the term mashout.
a.) Some use the term to describe the extremely brief period they raise the mash temperature prior to lautering. Here most people are not holding that temperature for any longer than it takes to stir and runoff. This method isn’t really a rest temperature. In fact, it’s doubtful that a uniform temperature across the whole mash is reached given the extremely brief duration.
b.) For those of use who step mash, we are not only raising the temperature from our alpha rest temperature (72C) to our mashout rest temperature (76-77C), we are also holding this temperature for at least 10 minutes. That means we ramp from 72-77C (4-5 minutes), rest at 76-77C (10 minutes), and then the mash sits for a few extra minutes as we prepare to runoff (1-2 minutes). That’s quite different and it means we sit in a temperature range known for producing foam positive Glycoprotiens for something on the order of 15 minutes. Not only that, but if you are recirculating, it gives the mash temperature enough time to equalize across the whole volume and you get some additional extract in solution.
So it pays to be clear about how we are all using the term. As always, YMMV.
Slightly irrelevant and off topic, but I’m curious about terminology. I see most here using “mash out” for what I always thought was “mash off.” Full set of terms I learned: mash in = same as dough in, mash off = 170°F rest, mash down = transfer to lauter tun, mash out = same as grains out. Am I non-standard nowadays?
I’m thinking of Mash OFF, i.e. holding a 170F rest.
So after step mashing for intervals of say, 30 minutes at each of two selected mash temps, you increase to and hold at 76-77C (or at 170F) for another 10 minutes during a recirculation mash, right? (i.e., a 70 minute mash routine in total, plus ramp times)?