Dry Hopping

[denny]

@majorvices

The #1 problem with dry hopping is the introduction of oxygen. When you drop those pellets in they will drag o2 down with them. On commercial batches I have been using a 15 gallon yeast brink, adding all my hops and then purging that vessel with co2, letting some beer flow into the brink from the tanks and then blowing that back into the fermentor with the hops. This vastly improves shelf life and hop flavor stability.

If you have c02 you can add your hops to a secondary vessel (carboy or corny keg), purge that vessel with co2 and then rack your beer onto the hops to the same effect I mentioned above. Or you can add the hops to the primary vessel just near the end of fermentation so that the yeast scrubs the o2. Arguably if there is still yeast in the fermentor you will have a different hop character like Denny mentions. There is actually a theory out there called “Bio transfomation” which is what the “cloudy IPA” rage is all about but you will have to google that for more info.

The other problem with that latter method is you can expect to lose some hop flavor and aroma when the yeast eventually settles out because the hop resins bind to the yeast cell and fall out with them.

I will edit this to add: I tried to get away from dry hopping but there is nothing to compare with that aroma. It is well worth it.

In an upcoming BYO article, I debate Gordon about this very point.

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@denny

Yeah, weird floral flavors and aromas.

So, if I want weird floral flavor and aroma I should dry hop in primary. A new technique, thanks Denny.  ;D

[majorvices]

@denny

@majorvices

The #1 problem with dry hopping is the introduction of oxygen. When you drop those pellets in they will drag o2 down with them. On commercial batches I have been using a 15 gallon yeast brink, adding all my hops and then purging that vessel with co2, letting some beer flow into the brink from the tanks and then blowing that back into the fermentor with the hops. This vastly improves shelf life and hop flavor stability.

If you have c02 you can add your hops to a secondary vessel (carboy or corny keg), purge that vessel with co2 and then rack your beer onto the hops to the same effect I mentioned above. Or you can add the hops to the primary vessel just near the end of fermentation so that the yeast scrubs the o2. Arguably if there is still yeast in the fermentor you will have a different hop character like Denny mentions. There is actually a theory out there called “Bio transfomation” which is what the “cloudy IPA” rage is all about but you will have to google that for more info.

The other problem with that latter method is you can expect to lose some hop flavor and aroma when the yeast eventually settles out because the hop resins bind to the yeast cell and fall out with them.

I will edit this to add: I tried to get away from dry hopping but there is nothing to compare with that aroma. It is well worth it.

In an upcoming BYO article, I debate Gordon about this very point.

Which point?

Edit: If you are talking about the difference between dry hopping and not dry hopping I rescind that comment because you can do things with small batches that can give excellent hop aromas. Long WPs in commercial brewing can cause problems which is what I was thinking about.

[reverseapachemaster]

To really purge you should try and put a vacuum on your yeast brink. Do a triple cycle of vac/purge. It will get your DO levels even lower.

Will a Hoover work or do I need something more expensive?

[denny]

@majorvices

Which point?

Edit: If you are talking about the difference between dry hopping and not dry hopping I rescind that comment because you can do things with small batches that can give excellent hop aromas. Long WPs in commercial brewing can cause problems which is what I was thinking about.

Oxidation and whether other methods are equivalent to dry hopping.

[Joel5000]

I continue to try to dry hop in primary (because I am lazy), and I continue to be disappointed with the results.  Like Denny said, there is just a weird flavor that I don’t care for.  My results are better when I drop hop in secondary, but I think I might just start doing some extended hop stands at around 170 to 180 F and skipping the dry hop altogether.

[majorvices]

@denny

@majorvices

Which point?

Edit: If you are talking about the difference between dry hopping and not dry hopping I rescind that comment because you can do things with small batches that can give excellent hop aromas. Long WPs in commercial brewing can cause problems which is what I was thinking about.

Oxidation and whether other methods are equivalent to dry hopping.

I will eagerly await your debate. But from my perspective, I have no doubt. Granted, we are talking shelf life and stability. For 5 gallons of beer, if you plan on drinking within a few weeks, oxidation won’t be a problem. Especially kept cold. I have had kettle hopped beers stay good for literally 12+ months while dry hopped beers pick up oxidation flavors in weeks.

[coolman26]

There is no comparison IMO to the aroma from dryhop vs whirlpool. I typically whirlpool, but when I dryhop, it is in a purged keg. The oxidation incurred killed my shelf life. I tried the stainless mesh dry hoppers, fail. I’ve been bagging into the purged keg and it has made a big difference in lessening the O2. Dry hops are such a pain though.

[neddles]

@denny

Personally, I dislike the interaction you can get between yeast and hops and always remove the beer from the yeast before dry hopping.

Denny or someone, refresh me on the science here… why is it that biotransformation only happens to hop oils introduced as a part of the dry hop and not what we add in a 160F hop stand? Nobody complains about, or seeks out, biotransformation of their whirlpool addidtions. Why not?

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@neddles

@denny

Personally, I dislike the interaction you can get between yeast and hops and always remove the beer from the yeast before dry hopping.

Denny or someone, refresh me on the science here… why is it that biotransformation only happens to hop oils introduced as a part of the dry hop and not what we add in a 160F hop stand? Nobody complains about, or seeks out, biotransformation of their whirlpool addidtions. Why not?

The biotransformation happens between active yeast and hops. Obviously no active yeast in the whirlpool.

[neddles]

@neddles

@denny

Personally, I dislike the interaction you can get between yeast and hops and always remove the beer from the yeast before dry hopping.

Denny or someone, refresh me on the science here… why is it that biotransformation only happens to hop oils introduced as a part of the dry hop and not what we add in a 160F hop stand? Nobody complains about, or seeks out, biotransformation of their whirlpool addidtions. Why not?

Right but the oils introduced during the whirlpool, upon which the yeast work/transform, should should be there when the yeast become active, no?

The biotransformation happens between active yeast and hops. Obviously no active yeast in the whirlpool.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@neddles

@neddles

@denny

Personally, I dislike the interaction you can get between yeast and hops and always remove the beer from the yeast before dry hopping.

Denny or someone, refresh me on the science here… why is it that biotransformation only happens to hop oils introduced as a part of the dry hop and not what we add in a 160F hop stand? Nobody complains about, or seeks out, biotransformation of their whirlpool addidtions. Why not?

Right but the oils introduced during the whirlpool, upon which the yeast work/transform, should should be there when the yeast become active, no?

The biotransformation happens between active yeast and hops. Obviously no active yeast in the whirlpool.

Sure, they would. I assume not in the concentrated , non-volatilized form as would be present in dry hopping. Not a brewing scientist, just a WAG.

[majorvices]

Here’s the information I asked one of my Siebel grad friends to share. Enjoy!

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Biotransformation_of_hop-derived_aroma_compounds_b.pdf

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

@majorvices

Here’s the information I asked one of my Siebel grad friends to share. Enjoy!

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Biotransformation_of_hop-derived_aroma_compounds_b.pdf

That’s a file on your computer (“C:”). No one will be able to see it.

[deadpoetic0077]

I appreciate all the responses. Learning a good amount from this thread! Thanks!

[Hand_of_Dom]

@alestateyall

@majorvices

Here’s the information I asked one of my Siebel grad friends to share. Enjoy!

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Biotransformation_of_hop-derived_aroma_compounds_b.pdf

That’s a file on your computer (“C:”). No one will be able to see it.

And now we know your user name.

[majorvices]

oops! :-[

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Filip_Opstaele/publication/257557116_Biotransformation_of_hop-derived_aroma_compounds_by_Saccharomyces_cerevisiae_upon_fermentation/links/0c96052d298ccae711000000.pdf

[hopfenundmalz]

@denny

Yeah, weird floral flavors and aromas.

So, if I want weird floral flavor and aroma I should dry hop in primary. A new technique, thanks Denny.  ;D

I like the flowery and perfumey aromas that you get when dry hopping on the yeast, and I also dry hop once the yeast drop.