German Pilsner Recipe/Procedure Advice

[hd3 (Herminator)]

Thanks for this info.  I have to admit that I am new to water adjustments.  I have really only used water adjustments to dry out my IPAs.  I am new to brun water outside of that.  My local water is actually really good and neutral so I was surprised to see such a high pH level.  It typically is 5.4.

I think I might have to get to know brun water a little better to ensure I am reading this correctly.

Again, thank you all for this information.  Looks like I have a lot to figure out before Saturday.  ha.

Cheers!

[hd3 (Herminator)]

So I messed around with my water really quick to see what I came up with.  Here is my profile and what I am proposing.

(all ppm)
Ca: 17.1
Mg: 1.8
Na: 3
K: .8
HCO3: 44
SO4: 12
Cl: 3
NO3: .4
CaCO3: 36

Mash water adjustments
CaSO4: 3g
CaCL2: 2g

Sparge Water adjustments
CaSO4: 4g
CaCL2: 3g

Latic Acid/Acidulated malt in mash
2.21 g or 2% acid malt

For some reason Bru’n water indicates 2.21 g lactic (solid) addition required but in the adjustment summary it does not carry over.

Finished water
Calcium:99
Mag: 2
Sodium: 3
Sulfate: 121
Chloride: 70

Thoughts?  I have always wanted to start tweaking water.  This is a great reason to start!  Thanks again to everyone for the help and suggestions!

[69franx]

Martin, that is good info on the yellow balanced. I have been using yellow dry because that’s what I thought it should be. I enjoyed both of my last 2 barches, but really don’t have enough experience to say whether it’s better that way. They were my first 2 GPs. I’ll see what happens when I make the next one with yellow balanced

[system]

@dmtaylor

If you know your pH is going to be high around 5.7, then it certainly doesn’t hurt to try to bring it down either.  Will you get exactly 5.3?  Maybe, maybe not.  Maybe you’ll get 5.2 or 5.4.  All good.

Oh, for sure! I totally agree with that.

For me personally that is not good enough however!

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

I think you back you Ca down to below 50 ppm for a lager.

[AmandaK]

@mabrungard

For water, I am using Brun Water and utilize “yellow bitter” and it has me adding about 2.5 g of citric or lactic which is new for me.  It typically doesn’t have me add any acidity.  It does have me adding a total 4 g gypsum.  Giving me a estimated mash pH of 5.7.

A mash pH that high is not likely to be pleasing. I find that pale lagers really need to have a lower mash pH to help them be crisp. I hypothesize that this is due to lager yeast not being that much of acid producers and they tend to have a final beer pH a few tenths higher than ales. I have found that I need to increase the mash pH a bit when brewing ales to keep them from being too crisp or tart.

With respect to the acid used in brewing, only consider lactic acid in German beer brewing. It is an underlying nuance in all German beers and it is preferred over citric since it’s flavor is more neutral.

I’m surprised to see so many using the Yellow Dry profile in a GP, but it does have a similar balance as Jever water. My only concern is that the Yellow Dry includes a bit more sulfate and chloride than the Jever profile. For those using Yellow Dry in a GP, is it more minerally? I like the light minerally character of Jever Pils. I suppose that it might get better at a little higher level. I have only used the Yellow Balanced profile in GP.

I used Yellow Balanced on the first GP I brewed and it came out a touch to flabby for my idea of what my GP should be. The finish lingered just a bit too long on the back palate, with a bit of grainy cracker that lingered before turning flabby. I also bittered it to 35 IBUs, but it seemed much less than that - seemed more like a 25-30 IBU beer.

I switched to Yellow Dry on the next two GPs and won’t change it. I had a measured pH of 5.3. It’s not minerally or harsh. The IBUs stick out a whole lot more even though the recipe I’m running with now has 40 IBUs, only a 5 IBU increase (which should be fairly unnoticeable). It has that perfect balance of bitterness, crisp finish, and grainy-cracker-light toast accent that I really like. Now the only thing I have to work on is which hops I like.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@AmandaK

I switched to Yellow Dry on the next two GPs and won’t change it. I had a measured pH of 5.3. It’s not minerally or harsh. The IBUs stick out a whole lot more even though the recipe I’m running with now has 40 IBUs, only a 5 IBU increase (which should be fairly unnoticeable). It has that perfect balance of bitterness, crisp finish, and grainy-cracker-light toast accent that I really like. Now the only thing I have to work on is which hops I like.

I like yellow bitter the best for GP too,Amanda. With proper pH, it’s crisp, not minerally and has the dry character I like in GP.

[AmandaK]

@AmandaK

I switched to Yellow Dry on the next two GPs and won’t change it. I had a measured pH of 5.3. It’s not minerally or harsh. The IBUs stick out a whole lot more even though the recipe I’m running with now has 40 IBUs, only a 5 IBU increase (which should be fairly unnoticeable). It has that perfect balance of bitterness, crisp finish, and grainy-cracker-light toast accent that I really like. Now the only thing I have to work on is which hops I like.

I like yellow bitter the best for GP too,Amanda. With proper pH, it’s crisp, not minerally and has the dry character I like in GP.

All this talk about GP has me thirsty! Is it time to home yet and enjoy one on the deck?

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

@AmandaK

I used Yellow Balanced on the first GP I brewed and it came out a touch to flabby for my idea of what my GP should be. The finish lingered just a bit too long on the back palate, with a bit of grainy cracker that lingered before turning flabby. I also bittered it to 35 IBUs, but it seemed much less than that - seemed more like a 25-30 IBU beer.

I switched to Yellow Dry on the next two GPs and won’t change it. I had a measured pH of 5.3. It’s not minerally or harsh. The IBUs stick out a whole lot more even though the recipe I’m running with now has 40 IBUs, only a 5 IBU increase (which should be fairly unnoticeable). It has that perfect balance of bitterness, crisp finish, and grainy-cracker-light toast accent that I really like. Now the only thing I have to work on is which hops I like.

That all makes perfect sense to me, Amanda.  I like my GP nice and crisp.  Extra salt additions sure wouldn’t hurt anything, I wouldn’t think.  Or at the very least, you need to do whatever you need to do to suit your own tastes.

As for hops, I’d recommend you grow some nobles of your own.  Doesn’t much matter which variety (ahem… MUST CHOOSE HALLERTAU!!).  If you grow them yourself, they’ll taste so much better!

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@AmandaK

@AmandaK

I switched to Yellow Dry on the next two GPs and won’t change it. I had a measured pH of 5.3. It’s not minerally or harsh. The IBUs stick out a whole lot more even though the recipe I’m running with now has 40 IBUs, only a 5 IBU increase (which should be fairly unnoticeable). It has that perfect balance of bitterness, crisp finish, and grainy-cracker-light toast accent that I really like. Now the only thing I have to work on is which hops I like.

I like yellow bitter the best for GP too,Amanda. With proper pH, it’s crisp, not minerally and has the dry character I like in GP.

All this talk about GP has me thirsty! Is it time to home yet and enjoy one on the deck?

I’m there.  ;D

[denny]

A huge thank you!  This is great information.  So I wonder if a step mash or decoction is worth it.  Given the high modification of the malts, maybe a single infusion?  I have a 2.2 liter starter crashing right now.  Should do the trick.

Thanks for the info on the D rest.  Very helpful.

For water, I am using Brun Water and utilize “yellow bitter” and it has me adding about 2.5 g of citric or lactic which is new for me.  It typically doesn’t have me add any acidity.  It does have me adding a total 4 g gypsum.  Giving me a estimated mash pH of 5.7.

Thanks again!

Hermen

I have tested step mash and decoction vs. single infusion multiple times and my conclusion is that they don’t add anything to the beer.  Try the “boiled Jever” profile in Bru’nwater.  I’ve used it for my last several German pils and been really happy with it.

[hd3 (Herminator)]

[/quote]

All this talk about GP has me thirsty! Is it time to home yet and enjoy one on the deck?

[/quote]

Seriously!

Cheers!

[denny]

@dmtaylor

I forgot to mention mash pH previously.  The easiest way to fix that is to add a few ounces of acidulated malt.  Use 1% per 0.1 points of pH you need to lose.  So to go from a mash pH of 5.7 to 5.3 in a 5-gallon batch, you need to use about 0.4-0.5 lb.  This is very common with light colored beers that have little if any specialty Malts to bring the pH down.  Problem solved, and without having to buy or measure any acid additions.

No, the easiest way is to use lactic or phosphoric acid.

[hd3 (Herminator)]

I am going to go the latic acid route as I already have some.  I am going to be adding 3ml of latic, 3g gypsum and 3g Calc. Chloride all to the mash water.  This will get me down to 5.44.

[system]

I am going to go the latic acid route as I already have some.  I am going to be adding 3ml of latic, 3g gypsum and 3g Calc. Chloride all to the mash water.  This will get me down to 5.44.

Go lower.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@rabeb25

Go lower.

+1.  5.2-5.3 pH makes a nicer pale lager IMO.

[system]

Well personally I target 5.5 for mash, and 5.2 for boil, but thats another story. 8)

[AmandaK]

@rabeb25

Well personally I target 5.5 for mash, and 5.2 for boil, but thats another story. 8)

Can I ask why?

[hd3 (Herminator)]

Okay.  So I bumped up lactic acid up to 5ml which gets me to 5.27.  Is that too much lactic?  I am also only adding this to my mash water,  which I assume is the correct way to do this since I batch sparge and start run off almost immediately.

Should I split with some acidulated malt and latic acid?

Thanks again!

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

Okay.  So I bumped up lactic acid up to 5ml which gets me to 5.27.  Is that too much lactic?  I am also only adding this to my mash water,  which I assume is the correct way to do this since I batch sparge and start run off almost immediately.

Should I split with some acidulated malt and latic acid?

Thanks again!

I wouldn’t use both. From what I understand, acidulated malt is just base (pilsner?) malt treated with lactic acid.