Hochkurz double decoction AND a really long boil for an impy stout?

[thcipriani]

@tomsawyer

@thcipriani

I’ve heard people smarter than me say that there is little to no change in the molecular weight of proteins in the mash. Don’t know if I believe it.

Not sure I understand that, you are aparently changing the protein enough that it no longer functions as a foam-promoting protein.  But I haven’t researched this.

Check out Charlie Bamforth on the BeerSmith podcast: Mashing with Dr Charlie Bamforth – BeerSmith Podcast #14 – BeerSmith™ Home Brewing Blog

At ~31:25 Bamforth talks about a study done by Michael Lewis that argues that there is actually no protein breakdown in mashing – only in malting.

[phillamb168]

Beersmith recently released a podcast on brewing big beers. Learned a lot there, but here were my takeaways that I’ll be applying to the brewday sunday:

1. shittons of yeast (a 5L starter at high krausen should be enough, no?)
2. LOTS of rice hulls (perhaps 1kg for 20 kg of malt?)
3. no-sparge, vorlauf, empty to kettle on a slooooow drain
4. add DME and/or simple sugar to get to preferred OG
5. Add 8 grams wyeast nutrient post-boil post-chill pre-pitch
6. in the case of stuck fermentation, get a 1L starter of yeast to high krausen and pitch

Sound reasonable?

[tygo]

@phillamb168

1. s***tons of yeast (a 5L starter at high krausen should be enough, no?)

I’d use more yeast for a beer this size.  If you can, consider doing 5 gallons of a low gravity “starter” beer and pitch on the cake like Mort mentioned in an earlier post.  Or do the double starter like you mentioned earlier.

[phillamb168]

@tygo

@phillamb168

1. s***tons of yeast (a 5L starter at high krausen should be enough, no?)

I’d use more yeast for a beer this size.  If you can, consider doing 5 gallons of a low gravity “starter” beer and pitch on the cake like Mort mentioned in an earlier post.  Or do the double starter like you mentioned earlier.

Brew day is set for Sunday so a starter beer will be hard to do… But I still have time to do another starter.

[morticaixavier]

@phillamb168

@tygo

@phillamb168

1. s***tons of yeast (a 5L starter at high krausen should be enough, no?)

I’d use more yeast for a beer this size.  If you can, consider doing 5 gallons of a low gravity “starter” beer and pitch on the cake like Mort mentioned in an earlier post.  Or do the double starter like you mentioned earlier.

Brew day is set for Sunday so a starter beer will be hard to do… But I still have time to do another starter.

If you have time and available material and your 5L is really done I might consider decanting and adding new wort today to try to get close to another doubleing by sunday night. but if not it’s probably okay. I’ve done big beers (not quite this big but 1.100+) with a 0.5 gallon starter to good effect.

[tygo]

I’m not sure he’s going to get another doubling by decanting and adding another 5L.  I think the inoculation rate on the second 5L is going to be pretty high.  But I don’t have any of the reference material or calculators in front of me so I’m not sure.

[phillamb168]

Well, this is for a 10 gal batch. I should have time to do another 5L, making it 10 L total/ 5L for each 5 gallon. That seems like it would be plenty?

[nateo]

@tygo

I’m not sure he’s going to get another doubling by decanting and adding another 5L.  I think the inoculation rate on the second 5L is going to be pretty high.  But I don’t have any of the reference material or calculators in front of me so I’m not sure.

IIRC, a 5L starter would make about 300b cells. You’ll get the most growth from 25-50m/ml inoculation. I 300b in 5000ml would be 60m/ml. You should still get a decent amount of growth, though not quite as much as a lower inoculation rate would. I don’t have a chart in front of me to figure out the growth factor.

[morticaixavier]

@phillamb168

Well, this is for a 10 gal batch. I should have time to do another 5L, making it 10 L total/ 5L for each 5 gallon. That seems like it would be plenty?

I would think so.

[phillamb168]

10 Gallons didn’t make it - thanks to a 120 minute boil, 20-something kilos of grain and related absorption and nearly a gallon’s worth of absorption by the leaf hops, I only got 20 L out of the deal. measured OG was 1.115 - without adding any extract - so I’m pretty happy. Holy cow is this a thick sludge-y wort. It already has legs. We’re using the hydrometer’s share to make some chocolate cookies.

I am not so sure that I’ll ever do a decoction again, at least not until I can get a better system in place for handling it. Or perhaps I will do it, but never again for an imperial stout.

What remains to be seen is if the 1L starter will be OK fermenting this stuff down. I’m going to get another starter going when I get home and pitch it at high krausen just to make sure they can do their job.

[morticaixavier]

@phillamb168

10 Gallons didn’t make it - thanks to a 120 minute boil, 20-something kilos of grain and related absorption and nearly a gallon’s worth of absorption by the leaf hops, I only got 20 L out of the deal. measured OG was 1.115 - without adding any extract - so I’m pretty happy. Holy cow is this a thick sludge-y wort. It already has legs. We’re using the hydrometer’s share to make some chocolate cookies.

I am not so sure that I’ll ever do a decoction again, at least not until I can get a better system in place for handling it. Or perhaps I will do it, but never again for an imperial stout.

What remains to be seen is if the 1L starter will be OK fermenting this stuff down. I’m going to get another starter going when I get home and pitch it at high krausen just to make sure they can do their job.

wow! only half what you were expecting? you should have run another 20l through the grain for a small stout. (small in this case probably would have been around 1.060)  ;D

[phillamb168]

Well I totally would have, except it was already pouring outside (rain, that is) and at 7 PM I had no desire to stay out there any longer. Should I have? Oh totally, but there’s always the next time.

[morticaixavier]

@phillamb168

Well I totally would have, except it was already pouring outside (rain, that is) and at 7 PM I had no desire to stay out there any longer. Should I have? Oh totally, but there’s always the next time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I understand. I brewed on saturday night because it was pouring friday night when I had planned to brew. Saturday on the other hand was only occasionally rainy. wrapped up around 1:00AM. luckily the rain stopped before it was time to chill. man what I wouldn’t give for an indoor brewing area.

[phillamb168]

@morticaixavier

@phillamb168

Well I totally would have, except it was already pouring outside (rain, that is) and at 7 PM I had no desire to stay out there any longer. Should I have? Oh totally, but there’s always the next time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I understand. I brewed on saturday night because it was pouring friday night when I had planned to brew. Saturday on the other hand was only occasionally rainy. wrapped up around 1:00AM. luckily the rain stopped before it was time to chill. man what I wouldn’t give for an indoor brewing area.

Once we get the house built (in like three years…), I’m ordering a prefab shed to house all that stuff. I’ve looked at putting in an area in the newly-refinished attic but ventilation becomes a problem with my current gas system and I don’t know how to justify spending another grand on MORE homebrewing equipment to the wife. But we’ll see. Also when it’s nice and sunny out, it’s great to be brewing outside!