Please keep this discussion on topic and respectful.
I wanted to find out for myself if there is a perceptible difference between 150F and 145/158F. On my system, I dough in for every batch and mashout for every batch. The only variable here is the time and temperature rests in between. I just want to be able to prove to myself, once and for all, that there is a discernible difference between these two techniques. I fully expect them to be similar, how similar is the question for me.
The Zymatic ramps at 1.9*F per minute, so I determined that I should eliminate as many variables as possible, which meant keeping the dough in and mashout for both beers. Had I done one with and one without, that would be another variable, so I wouldn’t only be testing 145/158 versus 150.
Here’s most of the original post:
Now that we have a Zymatic and can perform very precise measurements/procedures, I’m giving a real comparison a shot. I’ve brewed two identical German Pilsners using these two mashing techniques, taking readings at nearly every chance I could. I dumped the logged data out, overlaid the gravity readings, and now I’m sharing.
Recipe, for each brew day:
German Pils - based on Wort HOG’s recipe
Batch size: 2.5g
OG: 1.053
FG (anticipated): 1.012
IBU: 53
SRM: 5
5.5 lbs Best Pilsner
4 oz Carapils
4 oz Melanoidin
Bru’n Water: Yellow Dry
Ca 40, Mg 8, Na 8, SO4 91, Cl 29
60’ - Herkules - 15.8% - 0.35 oz
15’ - Vanguard - 4.8% - 0.75 oz
15’ - Saaz - 3.5% - 0.5 oz
WY2206, 2L starter in 5L flask. Shaken, not stirred. Pitched at high krausen.
Beer #1 (150F):
Mash times/temps: 104F dough-in for 10’, 150F sacc rest for 80’, 175F mash out for 10’
Target mash pH: 5.45
Actual mash pH: 5.47
Pre-boil SG: 1.051
Conversion efficiency: 91%
Target boil pH: 5.0-5.1
Adjusted pH in ‘kettle’ to 5.01, 1.8mL 88% lactic
Post-boil SG: 1.053
Fast-ferment test (w/ bread yeast, expected to be 0.2 Brix high): 1.013
Beer #2 (145/158F):
Mash times/temps: 104F dough-in for 10’, 145F beta rest for 40’, 158F alpha rest for 20’, 175F mash out for 10’
Target mash pH: 5.45
Actual mash pH: 5.47
Pre-boil SG: 1.051
Conversion efficiency: 91%
Target boil pH: 5.0-5.1
Adjusted pH in ‘kettle’ to 5.01, 1.8mL 88% lactic
Post-boil SG: 1.053
Fast-ferment test (w/ bread yeast, expected to be 0.2 Brix high): 1.013
Several interesting observations:
- There is a huge difference in speed of conversion between 145F and 150F. The 150F mash converted in about 30’ while the 145F mash never got to the same conversion in the 40’ and only reached that same conversion during the 158F rest. I thought it would be slower, but I didn’t think it would be that much slower.
- Each batch had EXACTLY the same gravity. The Z is basically a fully recirculating “brew in a bin” HERMS, I’m not sure if that has something to do with all of this, but it should be said.
- I’m also surprised at the work the mashout did on increasing the gravity. Here, it increased the SG by 17%. This is similar to what I’ve seen for other batches on the Z (+16-17%) for the mashout.
- The fast-ferment test indicated exactly the same FG for these batches, which also goes against what I’ve thought in the past. (More malt flavor, more fermentability.)
Some pictures:
Actual brew day, for the uninitiated:
The fast ferment test all set up:
Right after pitching the Hochkurz one (pitched the 150F about 12 hours ahead of time, since that was brewed in the morning and the other in the evening):
These have been rocking since 11/22/2015, and I’m about to take my first gravity readings and samples tonight. Pitched at 48F, fermented until 11/29 at 50F, now at 56F.
Gravity reading on 12/1 was 1.021 for both batches.
I tasted both of them, which of course I am biased, but this is preliminary at best. They have the same aroma as far as I can tell. The flavor is where it seems different, but they are very similar. The Hochkurz is more pronounced graham cracker, a touch of honey, and a light hint of graininess. The 150F, while very similar, is more grainy, similar honey notes, but less graham cracker. Mouthfeel is the same.
I had these out when Myles came home and asked what the difference was. He is also aware of the nature of this experiment but did not know which was which. He spent a while on the aroma, but immediately picked out the flavor of the Hochkurz to be more rounded.
Will this perceived difference hold up in the end? Not sure, but I’m looking forward to finding out.
On 12/3, I ramped them up to 62F. They will remain there until they are completely fermented.
