I know a lot of you and have met many of you personally, and of course, I love almost every homebrewer I have ever met. But don’t be “That guy”.
“That guy” is the guy who showed up at our “Randall” event at a draft to go store yesterday. I wasn’t there, I was at the brewery, brewing. But “That Guy” walks up to one of my partners and starts flexing his brewing muscles, asking questions about the beer, and then telling my partner why it wasn’t the way he would do it. eg: I don’t think an IIPA should ever be over 8% abv., and other assorted, sundry, observations and points.
Not in any way saying you have to bow down in front of your commercial brewing brethren, but for heaven’s sake, if you think you can do it better yourself open your own damn brewery. And, please, at least try the beer before casting your aspersions.
(Yes, I’m hoping “that guy”, by chance, reads the forum.)
I don’t know that he said either. Sounds like he had never even tried the beer. He was just saying what he would do differently and maybe insinuating that we really didn’t know what the fuck we were doing. I think our beer is quite good, sometimes even verging on excellent. Point I am trying to get to is that “unsolicited” advice from homebrewers at events or on tours is not really wanted at the commercial level. If we sit down and start drinking some beers, and strike up a conversation that may be different.
As Denny mentions, brewing is a craft, and as a craft it is a life long endeavor to sharpen that craft. Heaven forbid we ever stop learning, it would be no fun. But I have been brewing for 17 years now and I guess I don’t take too kindly to people offering up advice on how they would do it differently. I do it this way, because I like it. I still brew for myself, even on the commercial level. If I don’t like the beer I won’t sell it.
The beers of yours I’ve tried have been uniformly excellent. Even if they weren’t I’d be more inclined to say it isn’t to my taste rather than try to tell you how to do it.
I was at a brewery that made a cream ale that was harsh and unpleasant. Their water hardness was 246mg/L. I mentioned that to the brewer, and he basically said he didn’t care what I thought. I’m sure he thought I was “that guy,” but I’m also sure I was right. Being a wanker and being right aren’t mutually exclusive. If you don’t want feedback from the public, stop talking to the public.
That Guy comes in to the taproom quite a bit, and once he has a few pints in him he’ll start telling anyone who’ll listen how his home brews are better, and x, y, and z changes need to be made to our recipes. Oddly enough, it doesn’t really seem to bother him during the first 3-4 beers… :
I would assume that (with the possible exception of brewing for competition) all home brewers’ recipes are based on their personal tastes. It isn’t even possible to brew a commercial beer that will please everyone.
The only problem with that approach is that there are plenty of home brewers who assume that anyone sitting at the bar and wearing boots wants to talk recipe design.
Shouldn’t you be glad your customers want to engage with you about your product? Why are you sitting at the bar if you don’t want to be bothered? I deal with wankers with stupid opinions every day. Trouble is, they’re my customers, and I wouldn’t be in business without them, so I don’t see the value in rolling my eyes when they talk to me.
I definitely see your point, and I’m sympathetic to it. I was just pointing out that it isn’t necessarily as simple as “stop talking to the public” because sometimes “the public” will talk to you regardless.
Plus, sitting at the bar doesn’t inherently mean I want to talk to anyone. Sometimes at the end of a long day I just want to get off my feet and catch up on sports highlights. Believe me, 90% of the time I’m ecstatic to talk beer with anyone, for any length of time (as anyone I met at NHC can probably attest).
I think the difference here was that you tasted a problem, and offered a possible solution to the problem. It seems that in Keith’s case, the homebrewer wasn’t interested in solving problems or flavor, he just wanted to claim he knew more about beer than the “pro.” I ask a LOT of questions about the beer I drink, as most people who met me at NHC can attest. But unless I taste a distinct off-flavor, I won’t suggest anything to any brewer (Home or pro) unless they request it.
Also, I can attest that Sean likes to talk about beer. And I am glad that the picture of you in that hat made it to the AHA forums, so everyone can see how hideous it is.
In my psych class in college, we looked at a half dozen or so studies that showed saying negative things about someone made you look bad, not the person you said negative things about.
My business is fishing tackle. If you think homebrewers can be opinionated, you should meet some fly fishermen. I post on fly fishing forums, and I would never in a million years post something on there about how annoying the fly fishing version of “that guy” is, if for no other reason than I like money, and it might hurt peoples’ perception of my business. It takes a lot of time and energy to build a reputation for a business, and you should be careful what you want to broadcast on the internet. Does that count as unsolicited feedback? If so, sorry I brought it up.
Also, every second you’re in your store, you have to be “on.” I wish I could just hang out in my business and not be bothered by people, but a big part of how successful we are, as a business, is because of how we come across, as people. I wish I could just head to the stream and be casual, but I’ll see customers there and I have to be nice to them. If I don’t want anyone to bother me, I go crappie fishing at the lake.
Now that I have enough brews under my belt to feel like I’m pretty comfortable with certain styles of beer, I often have beers that are completely not my taste or seem like something’s off. Usually I can place my finger on it (i.e., too much crystal malt in pale ales). Sometimes I can’t quite nail it down (i.e., something’s going on with the yeast/fermentation).
Even if I don’t like a beer, I think it’s absurd to bust a guy’s balls about it. Obviously he knows how to make beer that people enjoy or else he won’t be in business long. I usually take it as an opportunity to talk shop with the brewer. If there’s something I don’t like in a beer, I generally ask as much detail about it without letting on that I’m not a fan. This way I’ll learn exactly what not to do in my own brews.
Either way, no need to be a prick about things regardless of what side of the bar you’re on.
