Thank You! You disproved your own argument and proved mine by saying that they taste more like an IPA and not a stout or porter! There should be a hint of roast in a black IPA, Cascadian Dark, American Black/Dark Ale, whatever you want to call it. Generally from Carafa or debittered black malts. I hate the sinamar addition because it is only a color addition and not really a flavor addition.
Per the Brewers Association guidelines:
American-Style Black Ale
American-style Black Ale is perceived to have medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol
content, balanced with a medium body. Fruity, floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute character. The
style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High
astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent. (i.e. stout or porter)
Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012-1.018 (3-4.5 ºPlato) ●
Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 5-6% (6 -7.5%) ● Bitterness (IBU) 50-70 ● Color SRM (EBC) 35+ (70+ EBC)
Was there this much of an uproar when people began brewing american brown ales? Why don’t we just call hoppy Belgian beers tripels? It is ok to have subtle differences in beers define a style. Look at plant or animal species classifications, some species are only seperated by one gene that is different, but we don’t try to lump them into the same category of species do we? No because they have subtle differences that make them unique.
The quote above was best;
Brew with style, not to style.
Reviewing the 2008 BJCP style guide has brought this conversation into more focus for me.
Without knowing the process that created these beer styles, it seems that they are categorized historically and geographically first (hence the German, Irish, British, American, Belgian titles to categories). This takes care of a good amount of beer styles and makes categorizing them fairly easy. However, attempts were made to accommodate more modern styles by putting them into categories of similar beer attributes (lagers, stouts, porters, “hybrid”, pale, etc.).
Part of the problem, IMHO, in categorizing this beer is that it inherits historical traits from one category and style traits from another. It straddles the fence between both categories and is therefore difficult to describe and categorize.
Rather than constrain the category because of confusion between it’s historical and style traits, a new style should be created that accommodated both aspects of the beer together. I would call it an 10D American (Dark) Black Ale. It would accommodate the additional roastiness of stouts and porters and also the use of American hops for bittering and aroma/flavor. (10C - American Brown Ale is just short by describing, “The dark malt character is more robust than other brown ales, yet stops short of being overly porter-like.”) It might also cause the American Stout style to be absorbed into it. The American Ale category looks like it was created to capture all of the American interpretation of certain historical styles. It conveniently captures these styles and leaves room for other American interpretations of classic styles or styles that are uniquely American (as is the case with this nebulous style).
So in the scheme of the larger debate, I don’t think the style should be referred to as a Black IPA. It doesn’t make sense. I think a new subcategory called 10D - American Black Ale, where dark, hoppy, American-style beers can live, compete, and frolic happily.
But for now, Category 23 would be the best fit, IMHO.
I’d personally like to see a sub-category for Specialty IPA, which covers Black, Rye and Belgian-American style AIPA/DIPA, as well as possibly “Imperial Amber” and “Imperial Brown” ales.
