imperial porter - please help

I need a lot of help and am expecting a lot of critique. Going for something in the vein of a 9.5% abv imperial porter. I have very little experience with high OG beers or darker beers in general. Definitely hoping to promote a smooth roasted character with a soft mouthfeel.

Edit - updating as I go
7.5# Golden Promise (or different base malt)
3# Extra Light DME
3# Flaked Oats
2.5# Munich II
1# Brown Malt
10 oz Chocolate Malt
10 oz Carafa I Special
8 oz Light unsulphured molasses
8 oz brown sugar

1.093
50 IBUs
S-04 or suitable dry yeast
adjuncts: cinnamon, vanilla, cocoa nibs

How far off I am? I assume the biggest critiques will be to remove the molasses and brown sugar and add crystal malt. The molasses and brown sugar is mainly for increased fermentability. Is crystal malt necessary? Hoping for a FG near 1.020 so I don’t want to add a lot of unfermentables but maybe I would miss the flavor profile I want without it.

I suspect that you may have trouble getting down to 1.020 with S-04. I recently did a big Porter with OG 1.1 and BE-256 fermented down to 1.022. US-05 would probably get you down to around 20, at the possible cost of some estery flavor.

Thanks for the input. I normally average about 78% apparent attenuation with S-04 but I get that’s in average abv beers. Getting to 1.020 would be around 77% and I am hoping some of the sugar and lack of crystal malt it will help get it down. I will consider other yeasts though. Maybe Nottingham? Never used it.

Denny’s BVIP makes a great base for an Imperial Porter, with or without the bourbon and/or Vanilla. I’ve also scaled it down to make a regular strength Porter. In fact I have that in the fermenter right now, going to add some frozen blueberries after fermentation finishes.

I was waiting for that reference. I have been looking at it this morning and am considering making some changes based on it.

Nottingham will attenuate well, but again at some loss of esteriness (and possibly added tartness.)  If liquid yeast is an option, Wyeast 1028 would be an excellent choice but seems to be widely unavailable just now.  There are probably other good choices.  If fermentability is what you want from the sugar, I’d cut down the 8oz of molasses, even light molasses (could be overpowering,) and go with sufficient demerara or other unrefined sugar for your fermentables, and maybe just a very small amount of blackstrap for color and flavor.  But my experience with such sugars is in beers neither as dark nor as strong as you’re planning, so I could be over cautious.

I would say that for Imperial Stouts or Porters it can be nice for them to finish in 1.020’s. These styles are nice with a full, chewy mouth feel. So, I like some Crystal malt in mine to help mute some of the harshness or acrid flavor of the dark malts and give a more rounded taste.

I’m not sure you need all of that in your grist. The basic “bones” of a traditional Porter are Pale Malt - Brown Malt - Black/Chocolate Malt… and then maybe some crystal if you need it to obtain a specific profile.

My personal preference would be to get rid of the molasses and brown sugar. Lose the Carafa. Keep the Munich. And keep the DME too but calculate your grist to hit your desired gravity and hold the DME in reserve in case you fall a little short and need a boost.

I agree with the others that you need to use a yeast capable of working in a high alcohol environment. In addition to some of the other suggestions look into WLP099 or Imperial’s AO1 House Ale yeast.

Thanks all. First off not necessarily planning to hit a traditional style. Just going for something I would like.

*Planning to remove the molasses for sure
*Will likely remove the brown sugar
*I want the munich but may have issues with my mash pH with such a dark wort
*Considering removing the flaked oats
*Considering some crystal malt

13# Golden Promise
3# DME
1.5# Brown Malt
10 oz Chocolate
10 oz Carafa I
8 oz crystal

Any better?

Maybe sub the Munich in for the DME.

Water question: How much sodium from baking soda can I get away with in a beer like this in order to raise the mash pH? Any concern with over 40 ppm? I wouldn’t think so but I rarely need to add baking soda.

I don’t think my mash tun is big enough to get my gravity as high as I would like hence the need for DME. I suppose I could sparge more than once.

Ok, that makes sense. You could make a smaller batch or partigyle. Just a thought.

Getting closer to the final recipe

10.5# Golden Promise
3# Weyermann Munich II
3# Extra Light DME (purely to boost OG due to lack of mash tun space)
1.5# Brown Malt 65L
10 oz Chocolate Malt 450L
10 oz Carafa III Special
8 oz Caramunich III

Bitter to 50 IBUs with something high alpha on hand (Magnum, Bravo, Nugget)

2 packets of Nottingham

OG ~1.093
FG ?

Maybe consider doing a Double Mash? There’s a thread on it. Or listen to the Experimental Brewing podcast. Or look over my Full Monty recipe (pretty much explains Double Mash) and adjust your recipe to be the beer you want. ☆ "Full Monty" ☆ Beer Recipe | All Grain Imperial Stout by Klickitat Jim | Brewer's Friend

Thank you. I will look into it. I actually thought of that but remember being confused by the process for some reason. I’m not very bright…

Way easier than some make it out to be. If you can figure out how to use one amount of grain and two amounts of water, it’s no more complicated to use one amount of water and two amounts of grain

Here is another idea.  If you are worried about the mash pH being too low, don’t mash the dark grains with the rest of the grain bill.  Gordon Strong mentioned this in a seminar at Homebrew Con a few years back and it may be in his book “Brewing Better Beer” although I can’t remember for sure if it is.
I use this method when I am brewing my stouts and baltic porters because Bru’n Water predicts the pH will be too low from the acidity of the dark grains and the water profile gets all messed up if I try to adjust for it.  Taking out the dark grains solved this problem.  I then add and stir them in after conversion is complete and vorlauf/recirculate until the color looks right and the wort runs clear before drawing it off into the kettle.  Since you will not have any fermentables to speak of in the dark grains, you can do this without affecting the kettle gravity.  Alternatively, you can “mash” the dark grains in a small pot and add them to the mash tun after conversion is complete.  That seems to be a lot more work for me and the method I am using works great.

Well I am trying to get my mash pH to 5.5-5.6 which works better for me and my dark beers. I have no problem getting it that high but it pushes my Na up to around 40 ppm. I assume that’s not an issue as some Na can add roundness to the flavor but was just looking for some feedback regarding that in particular. Would it be beneficial to up the Na even more? I don’t think I’ve ever gone above 25 ppm.

I would rather have the roasted grains in there for the full mash to get the full character out of them. From what I hear, a late mash addition is more for beer that you want less or smoother roast character.

If mashing in the dark grains works for you, that is fine.  Although, I have never noticed any flavor difference from adding t he roasted grains late (I add them at mashout).

Others can chime in on this if they feel I am off base here.  Bru’n Water says that “sodium levels should be below 100 ppm and never more than 150 ppm and that low sodium is preferable in beer.”  If you sodium levels get close to 100 ppm, it could impart a metallic flavor to the beer in addition to exacerbating sodium related health issues.  That said, I don’t think you are going to have any problems if your sodium level gets to or slightly above 40 ppm.  For one thing it will enhance the sweetness of the beer a bit more and round it out as you have mentioned.  Just my $0.02.