IPA's

[ajk]

@flbrewer

@duboman

Syrupy sweet? That seems to me like the balance of the beer was off to start meaning there were not enough IBUs to properly balance the beer. While the hop aroma and flavor will fade kind of quick, the bitterness balance should be more intact, a little less but not appreciably.

Good call. It was a little sweet to begin with.

Oxidation can also create a honey-like note that seems sweet. Is the color any darker than it was a few months ago?

[denny]

@natebriscoe

well 156 comes out with the right fg on my system. Denny you seem to have some insight on SN celebration, any chance they are using pale ale malt instead of plain 2 row?

Nope, definitely not.  90% pale, 10% C55-60, mash at 158, pitch 1056, ferment at 68.  That’s from 2 different sources at SN who know!

[erockrph]

@denny

@mabrungard

Whoa! 10% crystal is not a big deal. On top of that, the fermentability of the rest of the wort is going to have a huge effect on the final character of the beer.  I recall that SN does mash at very modest temperatures which promotes the fermentability of the wort and the resulting dryness of the beer.  Having a bit of crystal is probably not that big a deal.

Martin, I agree about the crystal.  It’s not what you use as much as how you use it.  SN mashes Celebration at 158 with 10% crystal and still manages to make a very well balanced IPA with a nice dry finish.

I guess what gets me is that there are so many sweet IPA’s out there. My first two thoughts are that either they used too much Crystal and/or mashed too high. It just makes me wonder what the hell they are doing if you can make a perfectly good IPA mashing at 158 using 10% Crystal malt.

I’m starting to come back around on the Crystal a bit. I’ve been brewing more English beers as of late, and my bitters & ESB’s are perfectly fine with 10-12% Crystal malt, even when using a less attenuative yeast. They are certainly richer and fuller, but not sweet/underattenuated at all. I may have to start playing around with it in my IPA’s again.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I’ve usually mashed my Celebration type beers ~ 154F. And I don’t doubt that SN mashes that high (but am surprised), so I have to assume that they use a ton of gypsum to achieve that balanced finish, like maybe ~ the 300ppm level of sulfate in Bru’nWater’s Pale Ale profile. I’ve only used the higher levels in the last couple of years and the results are undeniable in a West Coast-type beer.

[blatz]

erockph - maybe yeast?  i find one of our locals, Jai Alai IPA a little sweet as well, but they use WL002 from what i’ve been told, which maybe explains it.

[blatz]

I’ve usually mashed my Celebration type beers ~ 154F. And I don’t doubt that SN mashes that high (but am surprised), so I have to assume that they use a ton of gypsum to achieve that balanced finish, like maybe ~ the 300ppm level of sulfate in Bru’nWater’s Pale Ale profile. I’ve only used the higher levels in the last couple of years and the results are undeniable in a West Coast-type beer.

I recall, but I don’t know from where, that they use a ratio of something like 9:1 sulfate:chloride.  I will see if I can find where I saw that.  but i remember the ratio being staggering.  of course, it means very little chloride, not buckets of gypsum 

edit: See CYBI interview with Steve Dressler.

[denny]

@erockrph

I guess what gets me is that there are so many sweet IPA’s out there. My first two thoughts are that either they used too much Crystal and/or mashed too high. It just makes me wonder what the hell they are doing if you can make a perfectly good IPA mashing at 158 using 10% Crystal malt.

I’m starting to come back around on the Crystal a bit. I’ve been brewing more English beers as of late, and my bitters & ESB’s are perfectly fine with 10-12% Crystal malt, even when using a less attenuative yeast. They are certainly richer and fuller, but not sweet/underattenuated at all. I may have to start playing around with it in my IPA’s again.

You forgot an obvious 3rd possibility…not enough hops.

[jeffy]

@blatz

erockph - maybe yeast?  i find one of our locals, Jai Alai IPA a little sweet as well, but they use WL002 from what i’ve been told, which maybe explains it.

They’re using 1968 London ESB now.

[realbeerguy]

Picked up  some Celebration this weekend.  Muted hop bitterness IMO. I’ve been making a Celebration Clone since then, and this year’s is like the Celebration of the '90’s.
Maybe the fresh hops this year have a lower bitterness to them.

+1 to 158 mash

[mabrungard]

I find that this year’s Celebration is very sensitive to serving temperature. My fridge is set to 40F and that is too cold for serving that beer. All the flavors are closed down at that temp.  Let it warm up and its a different beer.

[dannyjed]

@mabrungard

I find that this year’s Celebration is very sensitive to serving temperature. My fridge is set to 40F and that is too cold for serving that beer. All the flavors are closed down at that temp.  Let it warm up and its a different beer.

Very true and I even got a better/stronger aroma after it warms up a bit.

[natebriscoe]

@denny

@natebriscoe

well 156 comes out with the right fg on my system. Denny you seem to have some insight on SN celebration, any chance they are using pale ale malt instead of plain 2 row?

Nope, definitely not.  90% pale, 10% C55-60, mash at 158, pitch 1056, ferment at 68.  That’s from 2 different sources at SN who know!

Have you made this recipe?  What kind of final gravity are you and SN hitting with this recipe?  The byo article says 1.016.

[denny]

@natebriscoe

@denny

@natebriscoe

well 156 comes out with the right fg on my system. Denny you seem to have some insight on SN celebration, any chance they are using pale ale malt instead of plain 2 row?

Nope, definitely not.  90% pale, 10% C55-60, mash at 158, pitch 1056, ferment at 68.  That’s from 2 different sources at SN who know!

Have you made this recipe?  What kind of final gravity are you and SN hitting with this recipe?  The byo article says 1.016.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

SN says 4P (1.016).  That’s about where mine ends up, too.

[klickitat_jim]

Bought a six of Celebration today. They are in the fridge preparing to blow my mind. I must see what all the hype is about. I have high expectations, and a bomber of Elysian Valhalla just in case

Update…
Yum!

[stbloomfield_gmail.com (ccfoo242)]

Really digging Celebration. Not too hoppy. Not too malty. Nice balance. Piny goodness with Sierra Nevada’s assertive bitterness. Love it.

[gordonstrong]

I think the keys to long-living IPAs are to have them well-attenuated from the start, to keep oxygen out of the works, and to keep them stored cool.

American barleywines I tend to overhop, knowing that they’ll fade back into balance over the course of several years, but most modern IPAs are essentially running beers made to be consumed quickly.  Historical recipes can be different, but most people today want to enjoy the freshest hop character possible.

If you’re getting additional sweetness, I’d probably suspect oxidation first.  Or just too much crystal malt.  Unless you’re going for the baby barleywine kind of IPA.  Nothing wrong with that, but it’s more of a keeper/sipper than other types.