I’ve been asked by a friend who wants to open an establishment that would offer good, low ABV IPAs for those who don’t want or can’t handle the big percentages most IPAs and Double IPAs have.
We live in Santa Rosa, CA, and have been regulars at Vinnie Cilurzo’s Russian River Brewing Company since it opened, drinking more Pliny than should be allowed by law, which is kinda where this idea comes from; no one wants to try to compete with Vinnie, but a place with lower alcohol-content beers has a draw for many reasons.
But in reading up on low ABV IPA attempts, it seems a standard concern that anything below 5% won’t want to stand up to big hopping. Does anyone have experience in making a true IPA (or close) or (why not wish for the stars?) Double IPA with a 4.5%-5% ABV? ???
Yeah – it’s called American pale ale. ;D You can pretty much put as much hops as you want into a plain ole pale ale these days, make it just like an IPA with tons of hop flavor and IBUs, and just keep the gravity low. It’s all good. People will drink it – maybe even love it. Go for it.
Thanks for the quick response, Dave! I’ve drunk many American Pale Ales but a true IPA or Double IPA is a different monster, yeah? Jason’s looking, I think, to show some moxy against “the world’s greatest beer”, Pliny (according to Zymurgy this month…) which is about my favorite and which will require hops aplenty. Our dilemma is that we are in such close proximity to RRBC and Pliny, plus we’ve ‘grown up’ on Pliny as have all our friends… he’ll need to supply something that will, at the very least, suffice in place of all the great beers nearby. So we’re talking a true IPA/Double IPA if that’s possible.
I’m very limited as a brewer, so I’ll take any enlightenment you can offer. If you’re sure the American Pale Ale could be tweaked, I’ll gladly give it a shot, but I’ve read many posts where people doubt a ABV lower than 5% could really stand up to big hopping. You say it can? How would you go about it, if you don’t mind sharing? Thanks! :
Another way to look at it is the concept of flavor presence. What do you want from the IPA? A certain hop / malt balance? Then it should be totally possible to hook shot it with an XPA. THink Pliny concept - very little to no crystal and a bunch of hops. You can easily pull that off.
this recipe has been very well received and has (i think) the characteristics you are looking for
Measured Original Gravity: 1.041 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.77 %
Bitterness: 82.3 IBU Calories: 181 cal/pint
Est Color: 9.0 SRM
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: BP Ale (98)
Brewer: Fred Bonjour
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0)
Recipe Specifications
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.71 gal
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 82.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 62.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Simpsons) (1.9 Grain 72.73 %
1 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (6.0 SRM) Grain 9.09 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (Dingemans) (19.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (Briess) (1.7 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
2.00 oz Amarillo (leaf) [9.40 %] (60 min) Hops 72.2 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min) Hops 3.9 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle US-05 154F mash (Fermentis #US-05) Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion 152
Total Grain Weight: 11.00 lb
Single Infusion 152
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Sacrification Add 15.05 qt of water at 165.8 F 151.0 F
All that said, Dave’s point is still valid. You technically can’t have a 1.041 IPA. An IPA should fall within the range of 1.056 – 1.075 according to the BJCP guidelines, and I would argue that to really be considered an (American) IPA in this day and age the gravity needs to be over 1.060. Otherwise, its a Pale Ale no matter what kind or how many hops you put in.
That’s kinda where I was going. There are standards, but I’ve always looked at them as things to be considered when coming up with your own idea But I have to bow to the knowledge and experience of far better brewers in things technical. I think the bottom line is that if a product comes to pass that will satisfy in place of our favorites, or those close, then we should accept it. My question comes from an open mind and, frankly, ignorance.
A hoppy beer is what I prefer :o and recipes can be tweaked, I just don’t want to get nutty if there’s something inherently wrong with our proposed direction. Thanks to the sage advice given so far, I assume the risk can be taken and the results addressed according to taste without fear of total disaster from the outset.
This is a little strong for what you were after, but was originaly called Pliny Light, now Tasty APA by Mike McDole.
From Fred’s site. You might spend some time looking around there.
Since the BJCP is certainly not the last definitive authoritative word on “styles” (except maybe in amateur competition) I tend not to take any pronouncements on “style” very seriously, though it is interesting to hear different takes on the subject.
Anyway…coincidentally, and timed well with the appearance of this thread, Ron Pattinson’s blog …which (along with Zythophile’s blog) has some of the best researched writing on historical beer styles around… talks a bit about IPA in today’s installment.
Everyone interested in brewing history should be reading these two blogs…to read Ron’s latest writing on IPA go here: _**http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/**_
It should always be remembered that the best example of any “style” is the one that pleases your own palate the most. While there may be some expectations of what one will experience tasting a beer labeled as a certain specific type, historically it seems that there has always been a a fair amount of wiggle room and it has always been open to individual interpretation rather than a ‘rulebook’.
the recipe I posted is definitely out of style. 1.045 being the min OG for an APA and too hoppy for an APA. By flavor profile it fits in American IPA.
The style guidelines are just that, guidelines.
My only point is that when I drink an IPA I expect there to be some alcohol in it. A low ABV IPA is a contradiction in terms AFAIC. If I went into a pub and ordered an IPA and was brought a 3 or 4% beer I would be dissatisfied. If I ordered a pale ale and it was over 50 BUs I would not be dissatisfied, though perhaps somewhat pleasantly surprised.
Of course, I’m wondering…why worry about finding a “low abv ipa” at all? Just make a good tasting beer and damn the stylistic parameters! Styles are great for competitions but good beer is all you need for a commercial success. Think about the whole new style of black IPA…had everyone stuck with established styles we would have these at all.
I’m not getting in the debate of descriptive versus proscriptive when it comes to the BJCP style parameters.
If it is good beer, it is good beer. Plain and simple.
But getting back to the original question: is it possible to brew a good “session strength” IPA?
I believe it can be done. Though I’ve not yet done it myself.
Look at the thread about award-winning milds for some tips: essentially aromatic(or melanoidin) malt and toasted oats provide enough malt structure to balance the hop bitterness, flavor, and aroma.
I commend you for finding a session strength APA or IPA–we should have those, too!
DUI laws being what they are, over the limit is “over the limit”. I’d love to frequent my local brewpub more often, but transportation is an issue (can’t walk home). The big beers end up being consumed at home.
ABV does not equal FLAVOR. I hope you discover the secret recipe, and, like Vinnie C, you post the recipe for the rest of us!
[quote]ABV does not equal FAVOR. I hope you discover the secret recipe, and, like Vinnie C, you post the recipe for the rest of us!
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I couldn’t disagree more. If thats the case I guess there would be a good non-alcoholic beer out there (there’s not). Alcohol is integral to the flavor of beer, as is the percentage of malt, which is directly related to the ABV of a beer. I agree with al the sentiments that you should be able to “find your own beer”, and even call it what you want. But alcohol is imperative to an IPA. It may be a great beer. But a low ABV beer won’t ever be an IPA.
I couldn’t disagree more. If thats the case I guess there would be a good non-alcoholic beer out there (there’s not). Alcohol is integral to the flavor of beer, as is the percentage of malt, which is directly related to the ABV of a beer. I agree with al the sentiments that you should be able to “find your own beer”, and even call it what you want. But alcohol is imperative to an IPA. It may be a great beer. But a low ABV beer won’t ever be an IPA.
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Hmmm, quite the leap of logic there. Even if ABV does equal flavor, there’s nothing that says more flavor is better. There are plenty of session level beers out there with the perfect amount of flavor (I agree they’re not IPAs but neither are they your “reducto ad absurdium” non-alcoholics either).
Hmmm, quite the leap of logic there. Even if ABV does equal flavor, there’s nothing that says more flavor is better. There are plenty of session level beers out there with the perfect amount of flavor (I agree they’re not IPAs but neither are they your “reducto ad absurdium” non-alcoholics either).
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I don’t see how it is a “leap of logic” at all. If anything the leap of logic is making the assumption that I am saying higher ABV is better. I certainly never said that.
I think this is just a big misunderstanding, either on my part or ya’lls. I’m not disagreeing that the idea for the beer in question is possible or not. I’m just agreeing with Dave’s initial statement - technically it sounds like what the OP wants is a pale ale. IMO that would fit the bill.
I firmly agree with Keith here, and it’s a matter of using an accurate description to meet expectations. If I ordered and IPA and got a 1.040ish beer, I’d feel that I had been deceived. It’s kinda like calling a pig a poodle…you can certainly do that, but you won’t be getting your meaning across to other people. As was said earlier, forget about descriptive terminology at all and just brew the beer you want to have. But don’t call a pig beer a poodle beer.
But I have to bow to the knowledge and experience of far better brewers in things technical. I think the bottom line is that if a product comes to pass that will satisfy in place of our favorites, or those close, then we should accept it. My question comes from an open mind and, frankly, ignorance.