I’m doing BIAB in a SMALL batch, one gallon net. Several reasons for this: recipe development, space, creativity, trying all grain without going all in. My last batch has a strange odor, maybe cardboard but I might be reading too many articles. I did not do too much oxygen exposure with the hot wort, i.e. didn’t “aerate” and was careful. I have read some critical comments about BIAB and I’m not sure if that’s with large batch limitations or what, but if I give my process in a nutshell please tell me if I’m either going about it wrong or limiting myself severely.
I mash on the stove in a 3 gallon stainless stock pot at specified temp. It stays pretty damn close to temp when covered and wrapped, use a remote digital thermometer.
I pull the loosely tied bag out and gently sparge with the proper temp water. I do this by placing the bag, which I open up atop a stainless colander, and pour S L O W L Y the sparge water over with a ladle to get the correct volume.
I do use corrected water acc’d to Brun’Water.
I DO squeeze the bag slightly to get more out of the grain but don’t crush it down hard fearing tannins.
I follow the recipe through boil.
Cool with a copper chiller.
Ferment in a 2 gallon bucket then secondary in one gallon glass jug.
I find this easy and I believe they call it a single sparge or single infusion mash?? Is doing it this way rather than a small cooler and false bottom going to give worse results? Again, I’m looking at recipe development hoping I can scale up with Beersmith later if I adopt full grain. Also, it’s single mash temp, not doing any step temps or processes I’ve yet to wrap my mind about. Just not sure if I’m limiting myself with this approach. Hope I’m clear and thank you.
I don’t see anything wrong with your process. I will say the proteins and trub in wort can give is a cloudy and darker color but after the yeast make the beer it clears up often in the bottle nicely.
What Tony said. I hope your process is good because it’s what I do except at 6 gallons with propane. And it will be a long time before that process is limiting you.
The “strange odor” might be something in that recipe. Can you post the recipe and beer target?
Trying to figure out how the heck to get the recipe out of Beersmith before work without typing it all out : ( I can post it later the old fashioned way.
OK, gonna just type it, remember this is only a 1 gallon BIAB batch
White Labs WLP550
1.1 oz caramel/crystal
1 oz caramunich
1lb munich malt light
1lb Belg. 2 row pilsner
1 oz biscuit malt
.15 oz glacier boil 30
.22 oz fuggle boil 30
.25 oz glacier flame out
.25 oz fuggle flame out
Plastic bucket primary for 5 days or so, glass carboy for secondary for 10 days or so, rack, bottle, condition.
Boy, I dunno…while secondaries are deemed no longer necessary, I can’t imagine that transferring from a 2 g. primary to a 1 g. secondary would introduce enough O2 to make the beer smell like cardboard. Denny…Jon…Bryan…anybody ???
That was a one bottle sample so I’m going to give the beer another try in about a week. I may skip the secondary next time around. FYI I sourced the original recipe from this link, and modified it slightly using Beersmith:
Having described my process, now I’m confused as to what I choose as my mash profile in Beersmith. I do sparge, so the BIAB profile with full mash volume may be wrong? Cripes…
If you really are tasting paper or cardboard that signals oxidation. try a batch without the transfer to secondary and see if you notice a difference.
Nothing wrong with your mash procedure that I can see. I’m not even all that careful to avoid splashing hot wort and don’t get paper like oxidation effects.
I’ve long since given up on beersmiths mash profiles, since the sparge volume will need to be adjusted for every single brew I just don’t see how it makes sense to have standardized “profiles”. Make the initial step temperature a variable on the recipe page, and calculate the sparge volume based on a mash thickness input on the recipe page. Then you would only need like 5 “profiles” and not 50… /endrant
I use my own mash calculator for volumes, temps and efficiency calculations. Google priceless biabcalc if you’re interested in it.
Nothing out of the ordinary with your procedure. Sounds like you are being careful about your squeezing and sparging. I’m not! I squeezed the CRAP out of my first 2 BIAB 1-gallon batches. I got almost all of the water I put into the mash back out (I did a full-volume mash, something else you might consider if you have a 3-gallon pot). The first batch tasted great at bottling.
Do you ferment in a dark place? Light can affect the flavor if it’s in clear glass out in the open. How long are you doing your primary? Give the yeast 2 weeks on your next batch before bottling, skip the secondary. Are you using an airlock? People do open fermentations, but if you think oxygen might be getting in, do whatever you can to keep air out during fermentation.
You might also just have some stale ingredients or a recipe that doesn’t balance well.
I appreciate all the help. To answer a few questions. Yes I’m using fresh grain (well, maybe crushed a few days before but kept sealed in ziplock bags. Fermented in a plastic bucket in my office which even in full daylight has very little window light. It is not dark 24-7 in there but it stays pretty consistently at 70 degrees in there. I did use an airlock. I will skip the secondary next time around, ferment in a darker location too (although it might be a little bit cooler.) I am altering the recipe next time around.
Just a couple of thoughts: If it’s an opaque bucket, you’re probably blocking enough light, so that might be out. However, if the temp in the room is 70F, the temperature in the wort while the yeast are at their height of activity could be significantly higher (I’ve heard up to 10F above ambient). That could be lending some off-flavors and/or higher alcohols, depending on the yeast strain. Temperature control might be in order if you can’t find any other contributing factors.
Regarding not squeezing the bag too hard for fear of tannins, I squeeze mine as hard as I can to extract the most wort possible. No-one has mentioned tasting tannins in my brews.
I also do not see anything wrong with what you are explaining you do for your BIAB. Sounds like pretty much what so many others do. Only questions I have are 1) What is your sparge water temp? If you are pouring water over the grains, you don’t want to use to hot of water. You say you use Bru’n Water, are you checking mash ph to make sure you are in the proper range? And last how much yeast are you using for a 1 gal batch? Are the flavors/aromas kind of rubbery, or like raw meat by chance?
I would skip the 2ndary, no need for it and it’s an added step. Keep it in the plastic bucket for fermentation (it’s a food grade bucket right)? And also keep temps more in the mid 60’s than the mid 70’s.
I hope it all gets worked out for you. I for one do not think you squeezing the bag will cause any issues with fresh beer. If anything I would guess that you could have poor conversion leaving unfermentable wort that can cause off flavors rather quickly with light or oxygen. Quick question I didn’t see it yet, what is your bottling process like? You’re not pouring out of the fermentation vessel you’re siphoning correct?
I think the best starting point is putting your equipment in BS. Start with the equipment wizard or modify the 3 gal pot set up for batch sparging or full volume mashing. Either way you should be alright. The mash profiles only help get you to the right temperature ranges for enzymatic conversion. So, pull the enzymes from the grains and get them converting your wort into a fermentable one. As long as, you do a starch test to see if you’re converted, and end up in the ball park of your preboil volume and ~60+% efficiency you’re doing good enough to continue refining you’re ‘brewhouse’ for better results. Or leave it there and drink awesome home brew.
Thanks again for all the help. To answer some of the questions: I’m bottling from another bucket, so no, not pouring direct out of the secondary. My sparge water temp I get to the degree per Beersmith. The local HBS said to “pour the water very slowly, do not rush this…ever so slowly…” He emphasized this, not quite sure why. But it took 3-4 minutes to ladle the sparge water over. I used “about half a bag” of liquid yeast (yeah, not too scientific…) NOW, that all being said, I am now tasting a second bottle, two weeks out, and it’s much improved (is that possible or maybe last bottle bad?) It’s not as I’d have it, a bit dark for a Belgian Pale Ale, the head is huge and foamy already but a bit coarse. Malt, caramel, toast, few hops, and yeasty notes on the nose. Has a very full round and nice mouthfeel, a bit coarse perhaps, and there is a bready and fruity sweetness to it that is nice, but it’s a bit unbalanced. Almost too much sweetness on the finish and a lack of grip or acidity. However, better than the first one and now to adjust the recipe from here. Who knows if a few more weeks will see further improvement, it’s been 2 weeks now. It’s not bad at all and it won’t go to waste. You guys have been great, I appreciate it.
Looks like a Belgian pale ale. That yeast strain is a little more phenolic especially fermenting at the higher end of the temperature range.
Phenolics are more prominent as an off-aroma, but also are imparted in the flavor of beer. It is described as medicinal, band-aid-like, smokey, clove-like, and plastic-like.
Might give it another go today, time permitting. I’m adjusting a bit, and will ferment without the secondary, and in the basement in the dark which will put the temps in the room about 66 degrees. Another thing, I don’t do the iodine test to check for conversion. Is this highly highly recommended? If so I’ll have to wait until another day when the HBS is open to pick some up.