I am having a hard time formulating my question(s) since I am essentially a novice regarding lager beers.
I live in Arkansas – think 100 degrees often in the summer and not so cold in the winter. Basements are not cold so I had given up on any lager beers and have brewed ale type recipes.
Recently I purchased a Brewjacket device which will allow me to entertain the notion of larger beer.
In theory the Brewjacket device will cool a carboy to 30 degrees below ambient temperature. Assuming a 65 degree ambient I will be able to cool the carboy to 35 degrees.
So now the question(s)…
Since I am used to hoppier beers and like darker beers my notion was to brew a Doppelbock recipe for my first experiment.
Any opinions or recommendations for other options on style of beer?
Any recommendations for a lager style dry yeast?
At this point I have read enough to be reasonably confused so I would like some experienced opinions.
Doppelbocks are a very malty beer. The hops bitterness is slight, at best. If you like hoppy beers, maybe try one with a lager yeast. About any beer you can brew as an ale you can also brew using lager yeast.
The saflager 34/70 is a nice dry lager yeast.
You have many options available. I’m not familiar with the device you will use to cool the fermentation. But my recommendation is to NOT trust the 35 degree possibility you mentioned in case the device is unable to achieve that goal. So, I recommend using a Lager yeast that ferments at a warmer temperature at least until you fully trust your cooling device.
For example: Wyeast American Lager 2035
Min Temp: 48 degrees F
Max Temp: 58 degrees F
If you like hop forward beers, simply select a beer style that looks interesting - the Doppelbock for example - and hop it up a bit! I have done that many times with great success. Sure, you’re stepping out of the style boundaries, but so what! After all, you’re in charge - it’s your beer!
The Doppelbock IBU range is: 16-26. So make yours 36-40 IBU. I don’t know if I would push the limits farther than that for fear of loosing the sense of balance. But I think 36-40 would work out well, IMHO.
Doppelbock is not a hoppy beer at all. I would suggest Pilsner as a hoppy lager, or if that is too light in color then perhaps an overly hopped amber Marzen would be good too (a lot of commercial breweries are doing those every September).
For any lagers, I recommend WLP833, Wyeast 2206, or S-189. Mash low about 148 F for best effect.
Darker yet, you could also try a Sticke Altbier which is a strong dark bitter cold-conditioned ale. For that style, nothing beats Wyeast 1007.
And these recommendations only matter if you care about sticking with traditional styles. If you don’t care so much about style, then there are no limitations at all. My yeast recommendations still stand, those are all solid yeasts. But you can hop up any style you want, or change the color, or whatever. It’s your beer. Brew what you enjoy.
Czech dark lagers are generally much hoppier than German Dunkel, more like a dark Bo Pils. Look into that style. And little country breweries all around the land o’ lager have always made quirky, idiosyncratic (read: outside the beer judges’ narrow and arbitrary style guidelines) beers. You can, too.
Czech darks also are based on Pilsner malt, with small amounts of crystal and roast for the color, instead of a Munich base, so the palate is rather different from their German counterparts, which might play better with more hops. I think BrewBama has a good recipe.
I really enjoyed this Dark Czech Lager. It is based on a recipe from another homebrewer Paulaner which is based on Pivovar Kout na Šumavě Koutský tmavý speciál 14°.
I used
77% Pils
10% Munich
10% Caramunich II
3% Carafa II
22 IBU Saaz at 60 min
13 IBU Saaz at 30 min
Bohemian Lager Yeast (I had to sub my preferred yeast to S-189 because my Homebrew shop was out of Bohemian Lager Yeast. Paulaner used 2278.)
I want to take a moment thanking everyone who offered suggestions. The breadth of experience and innovative approaches suggested along with real life experience was very helpful.
So, what did you end up brewing and how did it turn out?
I know its way past the OP, but for a really hoppy dark lager I would have suggested you brew a Schwarzbier, though the Czech Dark Lager is a good choice too.
My personal preference is away from many of the Czech beers nowadays. I seem to have gotten really sensitive to diacetyl over the years and many of the Czech beers (really, its the Czech yeasts that are to blame) throw enough of the dreaded D to spoil them for me, while others folks drinking the same tap just don’t pick it up at all. I envy them, because a clean Czech pils or Czech dark is a joy to drink.
It has been five months – enough time to brew and lager my first lager beer.
I choose a Czech dark lager recipe from BrewBama with a S-189 yeast. The time involved is longer than I wanted but the reuults are excellent – much better that I expected. I understand that I am out of the style guidelines but who cares. Seven out of six folks drool after they taste it.
The recipe will go to my ‘top five’ list.
Again, thanks to everyone who helped and offered suggestions.
Wow, 5 months is a long time! Glad you found a beer you love, but you should be able to turn it around sooner. (Unless the time was due to life demands…that happens to all of us!)
I take up to 2 months from grain to glass with lagers (and ales, the timeline is identical,) but that’s not necessary or ideal, just how long it takes, in my rotation, to get a keg tapped. Could be a lot faster: 7 days fermentation, cold crash and lager for at least a week, or until clear (could be several weeks, as we are usually waiting for the beer to clear itself, while commercial brewers filter to shorten the process.) Normal German lager production processes take 17-20 days total. Kunze warns that lagering for more than 5 weeks absolutely must be avoided. So next time, don’t waste away in anticipation! Anyway, glad you’re enjoying the beer so much, and I hope your 7 of 6 friends don’t drink it all!
It seems clear that I might not have the correct ‘formula’ for lager brewing and would certainly like some education/help.
Remember, Arkansas with ambient inside temps in the high 70s.
BrewJacket cooling device. The BrewJacket device, in theory, will cool wort up to 35⁰ but the time required for a 24⁰ drop will be 48 hours. Not ideal but that is the way it is.
I have established a BeerSmith fermentation profile …
2 days to drop temp to about 54⁰
Pitch
14 days of primary fermentation at 54⁰
4 days for temp raise to 62⁰ for diactyl rest
Rack to secondary
30 day lager at 54⁰
Bottle and wait 30 days for carbonization
This is a 50 day period to bottling and 80 days to first consumption. Part of the time spent is my inability to lower temperatures quickly but most of the time is what I have gleaned from various forums.
So the question for this audience is whether my profile is wrong or suggestions on how to change/improve it.
I’m not sure that 54 F counts as lagering. You can help the Brewjacket by adding ice. If you have your fermenter in the insulated bag, add as many frozen bottles as you can fit in the bag and exchange them as soon as the ice melts. That will speed the cooling and help you to achieve lower temperatures. Ice cubes have greater surface area to volume ratio than frozen bottles and will cool your beer much faster, but you can’t put them in the bag. I am not sure how good the insulation is on the bag, but you can also add more insulation. Even better would be to put the fermenter in an insulated cooler filled with water up to the level of the beer, and dump ice cubes into it as needed. If you do this right, with good insulation all around and on top, you should be able to achieve temperatures below 40 with your immersion cooler. I have a similar setup with a home-built thermoelectric cooling system and can achieve 34 F with the aid of ice, even with ambient temps in the 70s.
^^^^^
Long ago I had decent success using those blue gel bricks you freeze for picnic coolers, stuffed inside a homemade insulating jacket, for fermenting lagers, much like Richard suggests with water bottles. I switched out a set morning and evening.
54°F doesn’t count as lagering. But lagering (holding beer around freezing temperature) is not necessary. There are two distinct processes to be executed in making the beer:
First is fermentation and flavor maturation, which are done by yeast. They will only do this effectively at warmer temperatures, and will do virtually nothing below 40°F. If you ferment at 54°, and at about halfway to final gravity (around 3 days normally) allow the beer to free rise to room temperature, this will keep the yeast active. They will do all the “cleanup” of diacetyl, expulsion of sulfur, and such as they are finishing up fermentation. When you reach final gravity, the beer is fully matured flavor wise. The yeast have no more to do. This entire process should take about 7 days if you have pitched an adequate supply of healthy yeast into wort with adequate nutrients.
The second thing to achieve is physical stabilization, that is, clarification. Dropping the beer to near its freezing temperature (ideally 29°-30°F) for 7-10 days, or at most 3 weeks, will not only settle yeast, but will also form and precipitate colloidal haze, improving the stability and foam characteristics of the beer as well. (Much more than 3 weeks cold storage at these temperatures will begin to precipitate body- and foam-active colloids and evolve permanent haze; you have a bit more leeway at temperatures up to 36°F; above this, again, you’re not really lagering.) If you cannot get the beer at least close to freezing temperature, then there is no point whatsoever in storing the beer for any period of time. You can fine it and package it as soon as it has reached final gravity and the yeast begins to settle. The only noticable disadvantage will be chill haze when you cool the beer for serving. The great advantage will be fresher, less oxidized beer than you’ll get with a several-months-long process at ANY temperature. Once beer is fermented out and clarified as much as possible, it is not really ageing, it’s just getting old.