Reserve of nutrients, not oxygen. The purpose of oxygen it to help keep cell walls flexible and encourage cell growth. The thinking is that dry yeast has so many cells that it’s not necessary to get cell growth. Whether or not that’s the case, I don’t know. I do know that for the dry yeasts I use I don’t aerate/oxygenate and have had no prblems becasue of it.
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Ahhhhhh, gotcha. My bad there.
Dry yeast is propagated in such a way that they already have sufficient lipids for 3 to 4 growth cycles without additional aeration.
I used to have the link to a Lallemand Q&A page where Dr. Clayton Clone states this, but it doesn’t seem to work anymore.
There was a lot of sulphur (both during fermentation and in the finished beer), though it dissipated in time. There was also a strange flavor that I would describe as almond-like. It wasn’t terrible, just not what I was going for in a Belgian Pale. I just don’t have the time or desire to experiment with it further.
I did not underpitch or do anything else out of the ordinary.
I’d be interested to taste a beer that someone else brewed with it. Maybe I can find one at HBC.
I received a response back from Lallemand to my inquiry. After introducing myself and a bit of my process, I had two focused questions for them, both of which are shown below with responses in red:
1.) Is there any information, which you consider non-proprietary, about the provenance of this yeast? It would be nice to compare it to something else in order to know how to adjust my fermentation profile for similar results to my usual strains. (Note: Earlier in the inquiry I stated my normal yeast choices are 1214/3787)
Our Abbaye strain was originally sourced from one of the Trappist monastery breweries in Belgium and is comparable to WLP500/WY1214, giving the stone fruit/estery notes at higher gravity and fermentation temps, and more “earthy” notes at lower temps. Personally, I find it really comes into it’s own on Darker styles, but is suitable for [all] the classic Belgian styles.
2.) I have read the [technical specifications] sheet and was wondering if you could provide a more definite cell count per gram than what is posted [there]. There seems to be a great gap between what some “experts” quote on cell counts versus what the yeast companies are quoting. I understand that the producer must not over-estimate cell counts, but some of the high estimates I’ve seen floating around are as high as 20 x 109 cells/gram. That seems crazy to me so i have always estimated [between] 10-12 x 109 cells per gram. Any insights on this?
These high cell counts of 20 x 109 cells per gram are coming from the wine industry. For most of our wine strains, the [technical specifications] are > 20 x 109 cells per gram. The cells of brewing yeast are usually larger than wine yeast cells so fewer cells per gram [are expected], but most of the wine yeast also have higher viability. Beer yeast usually have 5-10 x 109 cells per gram. Abbaye [has] more like 5-7 x 109 cells per gram.
Needless to say, i’ll DEFINITELY be trying it out.
I dare you to split a batch, and with the control batch, pitch the amount you’re sure that you should, and with the other half, use 1/4 to 1/2 as much yeast, no aeration, no rehydration, just sprinkle on top. Then compare results. That’s what I’m gonna do.
I’d expect nothing less!
I wonder why this is so at odds with what people who have done cell counts report.
It occurs to me that it’s going to be difficult to control yeast growth by restricting oxygen, though only for the first generation.
You could overpitch. Again, I’m coming at this from an experimental/trial and error approach so I’ll have to play with it.
I was pleasantly surprised that it has Monastic provenance though. That’s a damn good sign, I’d say. Whether it performs like it’s “wet” brethren remains to be seen…
Since many Belgian styles tend to be higher gravity, perhaps a simple test of one packet for an ordinary-strength dubbel or tripel would be sufficient to test “underpitching.” I’ll get around toi trying that, one of these days.
I got a reply back from Lallemand about my second inquiry and they confirmed that most (if not all) of their brewing yeast has between 5-10E9 cells/gram. That number is quoted for rehydrated yeast.
That translates to a starting count of 10E9 cells/gram and a guaranteed count of 5E9 cells/gram at the best by date.
Running the numbers with a starting count of 10E9 cells/gram shows the yeast reaching minimum count in 36 months at 2% p/month viability loss and 18 months assuming 4% p/month viability loss.
The Abbaye is reported by Lallemand as 5-7E9 cells/gram.
So they are saying that their 11gram sachets have 55-110 billion cells per sachet when properly rehydrated. Abbaye will have 55-77 billion cells per sachet, rehydrated. Correct?
I still think they are playing “worst case scenario” here. Not sure if I posted but the yeast that converted me to dry was WB06. It is an excellent expressive hefe yeast although it is not the classic banana clove strain so I have some confidence that a belgian dry yeast would perform similar. That said, the users in the pro brewing forum seem to indicate Abbaye might be Rochefort… Maybe after counting someone can do DNA? ;D
That’s correct. I’m aware of Sean Terrill’s viability count writeup and I’m not trying to poo poo stuff like that, but that’s one data point. Also, the JZ anecdotes about cell counts, etc. have no references.
For me, I’m going to trust the manufacturer under the assumption that they wouldn’t just give 10 x 10e9 cells away if they didn’t have to.
Lallemand says it compare to Chimay and the flavor wheel they provide seems to support that.
I don’t think we could ask for a better judge than you for this and interested in your findings.
Thanks for confirming those numbers. Many homebrewers are familiar with billions of cells needed for 5 gallons, versus e^? values/gr, so I was mostly trying to put those numbers in layman’s terms 
As for cell counts in dry sachets, I’ve known that for years. It’s pretty easy to know when you RTFM ;D.
Another cell counting data point from a few years ago. I remember Steve posting this back then and he took some flack for it because folks didn’t like that his counts didn’t match the wishful thinking. Oh well…
FWIW, I never believed in that dogma either. If I pitch dry yeast on an moderate gravity ale I chose to either rehydrate with 1 pack or sprinkle with 2 packs. This meets my expectations of activity within 6 hours and a healthy fermentation. Usually these days I chose to sprinkle since I get my packs for just over $1.50.
A quick update:
Per the recommendations from Lallemand R&D, I pitch a single packet, rehydrated, into the 17.5 °Bx wort I brewed yesterday.
I pitched at around 68 °F and the temperature stabilized to 64 °F within 2 hours. I had activity less than 6 hours later.
Ok, so a quick update:
Beer was just bottled at 8 °Bx. FFT showed 7 °Bx for 87% AA.
Temperature peaked at 69 °F and started at 64 °F so this can serve as the “low range” test for temperature. All in all, 3 days to Spund, another day or so to finish, and I’ll crack one on Sunday.
Thats pretty darn quick Derek. Make sure to let us know how well the carb level turns out
My Dubbel (“2 Monks”) was carbed perfectly and grain to glass in 9 days. By Day 12 the second bottle I cracked was fantastic. I aimed for 2.5 on that one. It was perfectly carbonated.