From the Simpson’s blog post linked below:
“Best Pale Ale Malt is the soul of our beer, and we get the best Brewhouse extract from Simpsons Malt.” – Georgina Young, Head Brewer, Fullers
I’m loving all the detective work. What’s no.3 powder?
“Fuller’s and Simpsons have been in business for decades, dating back to the early 1940s. Our previous maltsters were bombed during the war and so Fuller’s allegedly looked further afield, away from the bombing in London. Nowadays, Fuller’s orders between 1000-2000 tonnes of malt from Simpsons every year. “
Could it be this additive?
BYF No.3: BYF No3 is used asa dry acid for reduction of alkalinity in brewing liquor.
Alright made a few tweaks to the malt bill:
Cut out the 2 crystal malts and sub in english medium crystal. Haven’ tried amber malt but will give it a go here. Suggestions I read said to keep it at a pretty low percentage given intensity. 2% seems pretty low but others may have different opinion.
92% MO
5% English Med Crystal
1% Black Patent
2% Amber Malt
I have in fact come down with something, but, lying awake coughing and aching, I’ve had some thoughts. I would not take a “recipe” extrapolated from that log at face value, and here’s why.
In a standard parti gyle (literally “split batch,”) a single wort, of a higher gravity than the strongest beer to be made, is mashed, sparged, boiled, chilled, and divided into multiple fermenters. Before pitching, each fermenter is diluted with water to the desired OG, thus producing versions of the same beer, with same balance, at different gravities.
Fuller’s process represents a complication. Two different worts, of different gravities and different compositions, are taken from mash-in to chill separately, then blended in different proportions into the fermenters before the final dilution. The worts are of different compositions, or there would be no point to the elaboration:
One might expect all of the roast and crystal malts, for instance, to go only into the second mash tun for the weaker wort. Hence on blending, beers could be produced that, though of different gravities, have a similar color, and weaker beers could have a palate fullness and richness naturally present in the stronger beer with less need for crystal, and so on. I would also expect the weaker wort to receive a disproportionate amount of the hops. Thereby weaker beers can drink drier and more refreshing, and stronger beers, being relatively sweeter, will not be deceptively and dangerously drinkable. (This last is counterintuitive to Americans who have come to expect stronger beers to be hoppier, but it has always been the English preference.)
So we may know the weights of various malts and hops that ultimately produced the stated volumes of each beer at each gravity. But we do not know how these ingredients were apportioned. (Maybe why Fullers are so willing to share images of their books: they’re not really giving away the secrets.) It might be possible to reverse engineer each “blend” from available information, but I am not up to it.
BYF No.3? I haven’t heard of it and I’m not finding definitive info on the web. I can’t even find a Safety Data Sheet for it. Very curious as to what it is.
They have a column on the sheet for No. 1 Tun and No. 2 Tun with ingredient amounts listed for each. The amounts for each tun are nearly identical although not exactly the same.
While I know the partygyle method was(is) certainly used, coupled with the hop schedule from the BYO recipe which seems to somewhat emulate the Brewery Log, 92/7/.2 ~ ish doesn’t seem so bad an all malt ESB recipe to me.
I agree. That grain bill seems to validate a lot of advice on this forum. My last Bitter was just Pale Ale and Caramel malt, but, I have added a bit of chocolate in the past on the advice of S. Cerevisiae (Mark). But, when I did that I was more like 0.5-1% chocolate. I specifically dropped it on this last batch because I wanted to eliminate the nutty taste. So, the 0.2% chocolate is interesting to me. I wonder how much taste that imparts. It might be a subtle taste that is positive or it may just be color. If it’s just color, I don’t care to bother.
Here are some more Fuller’s information I turned up over the weekend… along with discovering a little specialty beer and wine store outside of town that stocks Fullers London Pride, ESB and Porter.
Ron Pattinson has brew logs he obtained while working in an advisory role with Fullers in developing their “Past Masters” series. This article has a snapshot of a 5-gyle brew from 1962 which includes Golden Pride, Export London Pride, London Pride, Pale Ale and Ordinary Bitter…
One more discovery… The Brewing Network’s “Can You Brew it” podcast has an episode where they brewed both ESB and London Pride with a side by side comparison with fresh examples direct from the brewery. Their panel declared both to be accurate clones. When listening they provide the recipe and brewing process at about the 50:30 mark of the broadcast.
Found 2018 crop, whole cone, US Golding at Freshops (not necessarily my first choice, but the only source I found.) Had the presence of mind to order some, so, by the time I get over this flu, catch up on real life, and have time to brew again, I should have them. I’ll report the results.
I hope you like the US Goldings. If you don’t like them, you can blame your flu for convincing you to take my advice on using Goldings from the US. I hope you feel better.
Just got around to reading these posts. I use Challenger for bittering and EKG for flavor and aroma in my ESB’s.
Grain bill is 75% Maris Otter, 10% 40L, and 5% each of Biscuit, Wheat, and Carapils. Note that I am not trying to clone Fullers here. I like a bit more bready flavors in my ESB and usually bitter it a bit higher in the 40 IBU range for competitions since the beer tends to mellow out balance-wise in about a month or so. It seems to score well in competitions. It is also a favorite of my wife who threatened me with bodily harm if I changed the recipe!
Agree with Jeff that water is important. Although I do not Burtonize my water (I think it makes the beer a bit harsh) it still has a significant level of sulfate in it to enhance the bitterness.
Just another view on this topic.
Challenger is a fine British hop.
On the Fuller’s tour the guide said they just add gypsum to the London water. Saw a stack of gypsum bags by the HLT.
The plot thickens! …what better endorsement of a fine recipe that a threat of bodily harm if you change it!?
Fullers is likely using River Thames water from the local supplier as opposed to the London Aquifer water which is better suited to Porter brewing. The Thames water has modest mineralization, so the inclusion of gypsum makes sense to me.
I agree. The water utility in London is called Thames Water. It comes from reservoirs west of London feed by the River Thames, up from the brackish tide Waters. If you fly into Heathrow from a Westerly approach you go over some of those reservoirs.
Here’s the 2017 utility report for another data point (they boil prior to building correct?): http://twmediadevcdn.azureedge.net/waterquality/WQ%20Report_Z0347_Chiswick%20&%20Hammersmith.pdf
When I lived in London, I recall there was a fairly complicated distribution system designed to maximize gravity flow. Living near Hampstead, the highest elevation in Greater London, we reportedly got water by aqueduct from some 60 miles northwest in the Chiltern Hills, which was fairly mineralized. Water from the London Aquifer was, I think, distributed to areas where it could be fed by gravity. And Thames water pumped uphill only where this was the only option. Just my recollection, and this was 30 years ago, but a reminder of the caveat that you never know just what a brewery’s source water is just by its location on a map. And “Thames” in the name of the utility designates service area more than guarantees the source. Like “Thames Television.”