Dave -
going to brew another batch of my apple ale. this time im trying red star cote des blancs for first time. blend is 4 gal juice, 3 gal wort. any particular advice with this yeast I should know?
Low and slow is the way to go. I ferment my ciders in the 50s for a few months. Rack often, about once a week, especially in the early stages. When it hits SG=1.010, add a slurry of a teaspoon gelatin in a little hot water per 2-3 gallons for a day or two and then rack it again – the gelatin will take out a lot of the yeast and you’ll end up with a sweeter, more balanced cider. Otherwise Cote des Blancs will take your cider all the way down to the 0.990s, very very dry and very tart. I love this yeast, but it needs the racking and the gelatin to avoid bone dryness.
good info thanks. i will doing the apple ale, so adding 3 gals of less fermentable 1.080 wort to 4 gals juice to end up around 1.008-1.012 hopefully.
My guess is that this may end up closer to the 1.020+ range. Wine yeast will not attenuate wort sugars very well at all. I did a similar experiment last year using Tang, DME and Lalvin 71B. Assuming it ate all the simple sugar from the Tang, the wine yeast only attenuated about 40% of the DME.
Ok wondered about that. Perhaps on my apple ale I should stick with notti or s-04…they work well.
I love the Notty, and you will too. That’s the best way to go IMO.
i decided to go with a straight cider this round. is one packet of cote des blancs enough for 6 gallons? says good up to 5 so figured it would be ok for 6.
Yeah it will be fine.
So if I add potassium sorbate and then back sweeten,am I not able to carb in bottle?
Sorbate doesn’t kill yeast. It only prevents them from being able to reproduce. So, you can still carbonate naturally with sorbate. The results are just harder to predict than normal because of the lack of reproduction. If your fermentation time is short, they’ll still be eager to carbonate, although it does take longer than for beer, maybe 4-6 weeks on average instead of just a couple weeks. Another cautionary thing is that they might even cause gushers, and that’s happened to me more than once. But if fermentation time is long and drawn out for months like I do, then the yeast gets tired and weak and can’t reproduce, so natural carbonation from priming sugar happens about 50/50 in my experience, just as often turning out flat as carbonated, and never gushers.
so my apple juice was pretty sweet and low on tart. I decided to try something different and added 32oz of 100% tart cherry juice. my OG was 1.061 and thinking I will rack often and keep around 57-60F so I end up around 1.010 and 6.7% ABV.
How much sugar would you use for 5 gals of sparkling cider that was going to be bottled?
I force carbonate but someone asked me how much sugar to use. I don’t know if they are able to sorbate either but assuming so, I think it was a tsp per gal but please confirm that if you don’t mind.
Thanks
Personally I prime mine the same as for beer, a half teaspoon per 12 oz or a full teaspoon for a bigger bottle, or 5/8 cup cane sugar per 5 gallons. Things to keep in mind:
Natural carbonation of cider is always somewhat of a crapshoot, especially if you use sorbate and/or sulfite.
In any case it always takes longer to carbonate than for beer, a month or two or even more.
You can use more priming sugar to help guarantee carbonation. However, gushers and bottle bombs remain a distinct possibility.
Even if you do everything right, often times it might turn out flat or just a slight hiss when you pop the top, even after months.
Forced carb is probably best.
On the other hand, flat cider tastes every bit as good as the carbonated stuff. Cider is much more like a wine than beer.
Don’t expect your finished cider to taste like Angry Orchard or Woodchuck. The vast majority of homemade ciders do not taste anything like the mass commercial ciders. And they shouldn’t. They make their ciders from concentrate. We don’t have to, we’re not trying to compete with beer drinkers.
any need for sulfites in cider like they use in wine?
Only if you backsweeten a lot. Typically I don’t use any sulfites anymore. It’s really not necessary unless you backsweeten a lot and need to prevent bombs. No backsweeten, no sulfites required.
I usually backsweeten and sulfite, but the cider I have on tap now is even colder than kegerator temps with the arctic weather lately (kegerator in garage), so I didn’t bother. And the cider typically (being ~ 5.5% abv) doesn’t last long, so if it’s cold enough and doesn’t last long, you really don’t need to. If I bottled I would sulfite, however.
yeah my question on sulfites was about preservation for long term consumption, not so much on halting fermentation. sounds like I really don’t need it
No, you don’t need it. It will last for a very long time without sulfites. Years. The only trouble I ever had was with a really weak cider where the OG was only like 1.042, then I had some odd staleness kind of a thing after a year in the bottle. But that was the only time.
So what would you do? My cider has been going for 5 days at 60F. Started 1.061 and just took reading and its 1.014. Tastes great. Really surprised how quickly this progressed with cote des blancs. Anyway, I’m thinking I should rack now and get it even cooler- 50’s. A little sweet at 1.014- thinking around 1.008-.010 is where I want to end up.
Rack it right away and cool it down. Then keep an eye on it. If gravity continues to fall too fast in a few more days, slam it with gelatin, rack again, and put it in the fridge and leave it there for a month.