All-Grain experts, I recently built a cynlinder cooler mash tun (10 gallon) and started All grain. But I have been having problems getting all the projected sugars out of my grain.
I followed a recipe for a saison that would have gotten me 1.066 OG, but instead I got 10.52.
The cooler I use is a rubbermaid 10 gallon, I use a mesh tube to filter.
I mashed in at 153 when 154 was called for and after stirring, I noticed a temperature drop of 5 degrees., I mashed for 60 minutes, did an iodine test that showed Sac was occuring, not many starches.
Batch sparged at about 168 degrees for 15 minutes and collected about 7 gallons total.
What am I missing here? Am I doing something wrong in the process? Is my equipment to blame? Should I not stir much during the 60 minutes to keep temperature steady?
I have been reading John Palmer’s book, watching videos, checking out Denny’s notes to make sure I am not missing a step, but it seems like I am.
Efficiency problems are usually caused by inadequate crush of the grains. Who crushed the grains? Can you tighten the gap on the mill? If not, you’ll want to get your grains double-milled in the future. The best thing of course is if you have your own mill and can set it up right yourself. LHBS’s are notorious for setting the gaps too wide because it reduces brewer efficiency so they need to buy more grain so the stores make more $$$.
The other problem could be volume. What was your post-boil volume? For example, if this was a 5-gallon recipe but you ended up with 6 gallons of wort, then your efficiency will be way off if it was calculated assuming you would end up with 5 gallons. Volume measurements are crucial for nailing efficiency.
Those are the two biggies. It might be a combination of the two. I am doubtful that your efficiency issue has anything to do with your mash tun setup. I’ve mashed in various different ways over the years but my efficiency has been consistent because I crush the grains consistently, and I always measure volumes with precision. Anyone with efficiency questions must do the same.
By the way… I mash 40 minutes, and I still get efficiencies hovering around 90%. Mash time has very little to do with it.
Jim, how often do you stir to prevent dough balls? I want to make sure that I am not losing temp while I am mashing and I am concerned my stirring loses me a few extra degrees that I need.
Stir well, once, at the beginning of the mash, eliminate all dough balls, and close it up and be done with it. Do not stir during the mash. You just lose too much heat that way.
dm, I had my grains crushed at a homebrew store in Brooklyn, should I ask for a tighter gap next time? I’m doing my equipment in babysteps given that I live in New York and space is a concern, eventually I will get a mill once I move back to California.
I used 13 lbs of grain, I mashed in at 4.25 gallons, I sparged with 5 gallons, I ended up with what I can get as 7 gallons of wort pre boil when I should have had about 6.5. I followed a recipe/schedule that was predetermined. At end of boil I had probably about 5.75 gallons. Is there a ratio you tend to stick to? or should I use a specific water calculator?
Your efficiency is incorrect because you got the incorrect volume. I pump all my recipes into software, then adjust the post-boil volume to what I really got, then adjust the efficiency until the OG turns out where I actually got, and this will give you your actual efficiency. Then you’ll know for next time.
You could get your grains double crushed in future. But also take care to hit your volumes correctly.
As for equipment in baby steps… ha! You are talking to Mr. Ghetto Brewer. I used a blender to “crush” grains for 3 years. It works great! Eventually I asked for a mill for Christmas because I was too cheap to buy one myself. And a good mill takes up very little space. It’s definitely a worthwhile purchase and use of space.
That is an extra 3/4 of a gallon of water in your wort. That will bring OG down some. And I stir my mash a lot. Not only to get dough balls out but also to get even uniform temperature throughout. I take frequent temp readings as I stir. Then put the lid on.
I get the best efficiency when my initial runnings and sparge runnings are about the same. Looks like you had about 2 gallons or so of initial runnings and then collected about another 5 gallons after sparge.
I mostly use a 1.75 - 2 qt/lb ration of mash water to grain. Once you catch your initial runnings, see how much you’ve collected and subtract that from what your goal is for total wort. This will give you how much water to sparge with. Not much if any of your sparge water will be absorbed by your grains (at least in my experience w/ my cooler set up) so what ever you amount you sparge with will be close to the amount you get out.
Over shooting your desired wort volume will decrease your efficiency, but boiling longer to get to your post boil volume will help.
As for stirring, like Dave, I’ve always stirred well once, close the lid and don’t open till I’m ready to collect the runnings. Main reason I do this is to keep the heat inside the cooler.
So basically better to up my ratio on initial mash-in water and dial down on sparge volume to compensate. Don’t stir throughout, just a thorough stirring at mash-in to get out dough balls and perhaps mash for longer (90 minutes?) Whats a good calculator for mash-sparge water volumes? Beer Smith or Brew 365?
As said : 1/ Measure volumes very correctly. I use a wooden dowel that I’ve marked with measurements for liquid volumes in my kettle. If you want to end up with 5.5 gallons as I do, you can be sure to end up with that accurately, which helps you hit target gravity as well.
2/ As said, try to get fairly equal volumes from mash and sparge. For example I try to get a pre-boil volume of 7 gallons which at the end of boil will leave me with 5.5 gallons. So I try to get right at 3.5 gallons from the mash and 3.5 gallons from the sparge.
3/ +1 to getting your grain double crushed at your LHBS if you don’t have a mill. I’ve been doing this for a long time. It will help your efficiency big time.
Finally, try to get your system down for consistency. These things will help your efficiency, but after that it’s about being able to brew a given recipe reliably and consistently. An extra lb of grain because you’re only at 70% efficiency versus a higher number really doesn’t matter in the end.
I use this http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/ to get the amount of strike (mash) water. Just put in your total grain weight and what grain/ mash water ration you want and it will tell you how much water to use for your mash. Then just subtract the amount of initial runnings from your total wort goal and you have how much sparge water to use. Take good notes and record how much mash and sparge water you use so you’ll know for next time.
I use this calculator… http://onebeer.net/batchspargecalc.shtml. It works well for me. You do want your two running a to be about equal. So you’ll need more mash water than sparge water. Yes, double crush your grains. I all but pulverize mine… I actually get better filtration with a finely crushed grain. Stir as you add your grain to the mash water. I usually add the grain and the water together. Then once all the water and grain is in your tun, give it one last good stir. If you don’t have dough balls then, you’re not going to develop any throughout the mashing process. 60 minutes should be fine. I like Jon’s advice on a wort measuring stick. I used to use one, but I’ve changed filtering mechanisms in my kettle, that I have too many markings on the stick to make sense of it anymore. I need to get back to using one again, myself.
The measuring stick should be for boil kettle? As for the Double Crush, is a Mesh Screen tube sufficient to filter when grain bed sets? I just want to make sure I get clear runnings when I vourlaf.
Yes, the stick is calibrated for your boil kettle. You can’t get consistent efficiency (or hit consistent OG) without getting a strong handle on your volumes. Mine is marked with quart increments up all the way up to 7 gallons. I don’t know exactly what screen you are using, but once you’ve vorlaufed sufficiently to set the grain bed, ie. getting clear runnings, it sounds like you’ll be fine there.
The measuring stick is for the boil kettle. Fill the kettle up with water a gallon at a time and hash out the stick. I don’t use a mesh tube, but I think it will be perfectly fine with double crushed grains. You’ll probably have to run three or four quarts before its clear, but you’ll get there. Like I said, I get a better filter since I started crushing my own grains finer than when I had the LHBS do it.