I don’t crash cool before dry hopping because I believe that the temperature also makes a difference. Though, that could be a completely unfounded myth.
I started having oxidation woes after only a few weeks on the shelf, bottles and kegs. I started using a yeast brink, adding hops to it and then purging that vessel with co2 and then pumping that into the beer and shelf life was extended greatly. I brewed an Imperial Pils last year that went into package in May and this beer used heavy finishing hops but no dry hops. While the hop character has faded significantly there is very little signs of oxidation and the beer is still drinkable (though I wouldn’t call it “delicious”.)
I have become so adamant that minimizing o2 during dry hopping is so important that when I do 10 gallon batches I add hops, purge kegs and then rack beer. It may not be necessary on beers that will be consumed quickly but if you have the ability to do it (like anyone who dry hops in a corny) I think it is a good practice to follow.
Totally agree. That’s pretty much what I do. The oxidation doesn’t have to get to the ‘cardboard/wet dog’ stage to eliminate your dry hop aromas.
Exactly. Oxidized hoppy beers have a flavor that reminds me of vanilla and old hay. And I don’t like it. The hoppier the beer the worse it gets.
Interesting information, my last IPA just kicked and I purged and dry hopped in the kegs. One keg I used loose hops and purged the keg before I filled. I used a screen on that tube, and transferred. The other I just used a hop bag in the keg. The IPA that was dry hopped and jumped to a new keg was much fresher and stayed fresher much longer. I actually did that as an accident really. I thought it would be the opposite. The beer that had the hops in the bag didn’t stay as fresh. I did leave the bag in the beer, where the other got transferred after a week. Maybe their is something to it as Major stated. I pulled the last beer last night and it was still pretty good. I brewed this beer in June.
I’m glad to see some people on here actually use their senses when drinking their beer…
JK JK, big smile. lolling, repeat.
I do typically appreciate ‘easier is better’, but not always. I think this is an area that is far too often brushed under the rug by homebrewers. Sanitation, ferment temp, ferment time, oxidation, in that order, are the most common problems I taste when evaluating beers brewed at home. +1 as well to this problem not ‘tasting’ like oxidation. It just tastes like not-fresh hoppy beer.
I think we will either add dry hops to a keg, purge, add beer, rack to new keg for serving. We do have a conical and the ability to drop the yeast and keep it in the same tank. So we may continue with the latter option as I think racking to a new co2-purged vessel (even if through the dip tube) may be riskier than just adding hops to the conical after the yeast has been dropped).
VIPA/NEIPA refers to the juicier, heavier mouthfeel, less-bitter hop-forward beers (typically cloudy in appearance) produced by breweries such as Trillium, Foley, Alchemist, Hill Farmstead, Treehouse, Singlecut and others (but most say pioneered by Alchemist) that focus on a balance of the right fruity (typically stone and tropical fruit) esters AND hop aroma. Essentially, these amount to IPA’s that are more dependent on yeast strain and behavior for the final flavor profile, as opposed to a true West Coast which has more of a focus on pure hop aroma, neutral, non-estery yeast strain, often better clarity, with a firmer, lingering bitterness.
What do you guys say, should I be writing style guidelines or what?
I think that maybe temp does make a difference, but that colder or warmer is not necessarily right or wrong. It comes down to if you like the effect you get.
I have a couple conicals as well (Blichmann) - but I find with the size of the opening, dropping the yeast out is almost comical - in practice, it rarely happens as the yeast stick to the side walls and after a quick yeast slug, beer channels its way into the opening. perhaps other designs are better with this function.
I feel like I am introducing almost the same level of oxygen pickup risk the second I open the bale and put hops in - not to say that I’m uber scared about it, but how is that significantly different to a purged keg? Also, putting the hops in the keg, purging, then adding beer gives you the opportunity to flush the hops themselves, which I don’t know how I would do if just adding to the conical.
food for thought.
Yeah this is a great point. We have the extra kegs, so we will probably try the flush/pressurized rack and see how we like the result. We are also trying the first dry hop-during-end-of-ferment blowoff thing for the first time in a long time too. So I suspect with both of these, we will like the result.
The only question I have is, when transferring from the dry-hopping keg to the serving keg, are you using an autosiphon or something to leave the additional sediment behind (in the dry hopping keg)? Theoretically, there shouldn’t be much, but with the yeasts we are using plus with the amount of dry hops, I expect there to be, well…more than I expect. I suppose you could hacksaw a dip tube on one of them…
I do a closed transfer by jumping the beer from liquid connection to liquid connection (with an unconnected gas QD on the recipient to release the pressure , pushing with CO2 at about 4PSI. if you pay attention and watch the line once the transfer is almost done, you can stop the flow by pulling one of the QD connections. The SureScreens block a LOT of gunk and I usually have very little come over to the serving keg unless I get distracted.
a different way of doing this is what Gordon Strong mentioned in his book - gently (GENTLY) tile the keg on its side after crashing, prop the bottom of the keg up about an inch and transfer the beer out via the gas dip tube to the fresh keg.
forgot to mention above that I always crash my kegs for 48 hours before transferring to compact the sludge.
Any problems with the Surescreen clogging? I used some stainless screen I had, but it let quite a bit transfer to my serving keg.
I do that as well. At the beginning of the transfer, I also run the first few ounces into a pitcher rather than the receiving keg.
Yes! ;D Thanks for the excellent explanation. … I think I might be making VIPA at my house and not even know it-
What about this dryhopping prior to the end of fermentation?
Doesn’t that lessen the dry hop charge because the yeast take down the effect and additionally hop goodness is blown out?
Do people do this only to eliminate the effects of potential oxidation from dryhopping?
knock on wood, have never had it happen (my backup plan is always to use Gordon’s process if it did happen).
when I first started doing this method about a year ago, I wanted to see how much I lost to dryhopping - I strained (though did not press the liquid out of the hop matter) the contents remaining in the keg and found I really only lost about 12-16oz of liquid, the same as if I didn’t dryhop.
of course, you do lose a bunch that is absorbed by the hops, but I am okay with that I guess - a small bit of sacrifice for an optimal method for me.
Brynildson adds the first charge at about 1 Plato prior to reaching final target, feels that the CO2 off gasing scrubs the O2 off the hops, but is not so effervescent as to remove all the volatiles.
I’ve tried it but will need to experiment more. My biggest challenge is in the timing - work gets in the way of my dryhopping schedule sometimes.
Personally I’m not a believer in the dry hopping itself causing oxidation, more the beer’s exposure to outside air. But some people dry hop as krausen winds down to push out any oxygen (along with some hop aromas). And some do it because there are compounds formed from dry hopping in the presence of yeast that some find desireable. I dry hop crashed, clear beer to greatly reduce the loss of aroma to yeast absorption, then yeast dropping out. Lots of ways to get there.
Interesting. Any info on what these desirable traits might be?