So was my first BIAB after 14 custom extract batches that were fairly successful. I lived in Colorado near Boulder and researched NEIPA’s a good bit as a few breweries there were brewing great NEIPA’s successfully that I loved (especially Weldworks which posted some recipe ideas that I followed).
After much research, I thought my recipe was solid but it didn’t turn out anything like I expected. Like I said, it was my first BIAB batch so that’s a new learning experience which may have changed/ruined part of the beer.
I tried the first bottle tonight and it was dry, bitter, astringent, not as aromatic as expected, not as flavorful as expected, much drier than expected, not hazy at all, much darker in color than expected. Here’s a picture:
Strike temp 159 deg F. Probably a mistake but didn’t wrap with blanket or anything, and dropped to 152F @ 45 mins and 145F @ 60 mins.
+4# Light Pils DME
Hops:
El Dorado, Mosaic, Amarillo (equal parts)
.15oz each @ FWH
.85 each @ flameout
1oz each @ whirlpool below 185F for 30 mins
Dry hop 1 oz each at 48 hrs after pitch during fermentation
Dry hop 1 oz each for 5 days before bottling
4.5 gallon initial wort water volume and “sparged” by running 170F water over bag of grains in separate container to reach boil volume of about 6 gallons.
Water was gallon bottled spring water. Added 1/4 TBS gypsum into boil but didn’t check the water profile. A brew shop I used to go to said to put some in for any IPA.
Yeast was WYeast 1318 from a 1L healthy starter with WYeast yeast nutrient.
Fermented in a glass carboy the entire time at around 69F. I cold crashed for 24 hrs in a chest freezer before bottling. Carbonation is perfect.
Regarding dryness, I recommend mashing at a higher temperature and shooting for ~100 ppm chloride form calcium chloride and ~100 ppm sulfate from calcium sulfate.
Regarding flavor and aroma, the culprit appears to be oxidation or volatilization. I don’t bottle much anymore so I can’t give you recommendations for avoiding oxidation and bottling during bottling. Nevertheless consider not crashing your beer as that usually sucks in air or using a contraption to avoid suck back of air.
I agree with this. East Neipa should be mashed at a higher temp than a west coast IPA because you want the longer chain sugars present. Also water chemistry can play a factor regarding flavor because the hops will shine better with higher rates as mentioned in the copied post.
I do think there may be a bit of oxidation occurring which could lead to a darker beer, but I do not know what the intended srn is supposed to be.
Your FG indicates a low mash temp. Neipa should be 1.010-1.015
Not much new to add, just want to throw an emphasis on water chemistry with a relatively high Chloride. I’d say even go 140 on Cl and 100 SO4. Using CaCl has the added benefit of boosting Calcium which is said to help with a more full mouthfeel. Cheers!
Agreed. Not sure why it’s that dark. I’ll take a read from your link, could be interesting. I didn’t rack to secondary to reduce oxygen exposure.
I plan to brew this beer again but changing some things. The water profile is definitely the big one and mash temp at the high end. I never messed with water profile for any of my varying brews but seems that a NEIPA definitely needs it to get anywhere close to that style.
I’m not going to cold crash the next variant. I am concerned it dropped some hop oils/aromatics but read other places online that others did cold crash with no issue.
Water chemistry is a key NEIPA, and would aid in haze. However, lack of haze is not and should be considered a fail, if taste and mouth feel are desirable. See the latest pod cast from Brad Smith and Beersmith featuring Michael Tonsmeir on this subject.
I had exactly the same problem with my first NEIPA. It was very good when bottling with a beautiful grapefruit visual aspect and, a few weeks after, it became a brown light and insipid liquid that I was obliged to throw away.
The original of this disaster was oxydation. Now, on every step, I add CO2.
The last one was excellent and still is (one bottle left after 10 weeks).
Understand and agree. The mouthfeel is a tad fuller than a clean, west coast IPA but not as full and silky as I wanted. I’ll check out the podcast you mention.
After looking at the Brulosopy experiment mentioned above the oxygen is definitely a culprit for the darker color. How/what do you do/use to add the CO2 into the fermenter? Any rather simple way to add CO2 to the bottles? Kegging would be much easier for that, and I plan on getting into that in the near future.
I use this device : Brewferm Keg Charger + cartouche CO2 • Brouwland
You should find something similar in your country.
I spray some CO2 in each bottle before adding the beer and I’m very cautious to evitate contact with O2 when bottling.
It’s very easy. A very fast spray (half a second) and it’s done.
NEIPA is one of those styles that is so sensitive to oxidation that it does not bottle well using normal homebrewing bottling tactics. It’s a fragile beer style and the usual bottling bucket technique introduces too much air contact.
If you don’t have the ability to keep beer on tap then second best option would be to get equipment to pressure transfer from fermenter to a keg, force carbonate in the keg and bottle with a counterpressure filler. That’s basically everything to keg minus a kegerator though.
Next best option IMO would be to get a small CO2 tank, flush bottles with CO2, rack directly into bottles and dose the bottles with priming sugar or carbonation tabs.
Understood. I’m working on making a keezer so kegging is upcoming soon. Flushing every bottle with CO2 would be insane and worth the $ to upgrade to a keezer and kegging. Great to know the info about bottling, found out some first-hand experimentation as seen in my next post.
Interesting find. Right now tonight I poured 2 bottles into a glass, one was the last bit of the bottling bucket so only half a bottle fill, the other, a full bottle. The half bottle fill poured nasty looking and dark, the hop aroma almost non-existing and taste not great, while the full bottle pour is quite good. I’m sure if the oxygen was rid of the bottles while filling every bottle would be amazing as predicted. Definite oxidation happening in bottles that I never expected. Can’t wait to keg and pre-fill with CO2.
Do commercial breweries CO2 prime bombers before filling?
I know a lot of people (me included), described the effects of O2 on NEIPA.
I’m going to offer though, that the color in those photos seems pretty extreme to think it is just a matter of O2 and what happens when oxidation and NEIPA combine.
Your grain bill should not produce a beer that dark, even with the moderate O2 that occurs with bottles and time. Your grain bill seems to be in the 5-6 range and these photos almost look like 14-18 SRM. That seems much more than what happens with some oxidation.
Is there any way any of the grains in your posted recipe are different than what is posted.
This is a bit of a head scratcher in my opinion. If someone else said it would darken THAT much, I’d be more open to thinking I’m wrong, but that is pretty dark.
Yes, I’m sure the grains are correct, unless the LHBS guy gave me the wrong ones. But I stood there and watched as he chose and weighed out each grain. He was on par with the recipe I was asking for.
I agree that it seems unreal but from what I’ve been researching it’s very true, especially with the amount of hops used.
The link posted earlier of an experiment shows the same dark result. exBEERiment | Impact Bottle Conditioning Has On A Hazy IPA | Brülosophy
Here’s a pic of the beer in the fermenter. It was hazy, bright, and light when racking to the bottling bucket and when bottling. I bottled one in a clear bottle for the heck of it and it was light but was the first beer I cracked open so maybe it didn’t get the extra week + a few days to oxidize like the ones I show poured. Next time I’m going to purge the bottling bucket with some CO2/Argon from my welding tank and cover, until I get a kegging setup to use straight CO2.
I appreciate the pic… yep, I’m barking up a wrong tree and it looks like the color really changed that much. I was the one who sent the Brulosophy link (these guys are great), but I didn’t think it could be that extreme.
Just to add more avenues to read / research - oxidation can be introduced pre-fermentation as well. Google LODO brewing and you will see a lot of people practicing process changes to minimize oxygen pickup in the mash and boil as well as post fermentation. Like most anything, I’m not sure I dive completely into a big change, but I tend to borrow a little from each bit of “research”. There could be some additional ways to minimize oxidation which is most likely going to be beneficial.
I just had the exact same thing happen. Had already chalked it up to oxygen exposure during bottling, but your pictures really confirm that for me. Can’t yet invest in a co2 system, but giving it another shot. Deleting the siphon and considering bottling straight out of the new fermentor with the valve on the side and some priming tablets.