pH Meter: Balancing cost and quality

[pfabsits]

Just a point of reference there are two different Hanna pH Checkers. The first is the HI98103 with manual calibration that was introduced in 1991.

The HI98100 is a new version launched in 2015 that changed manual calibration to automatic and added stability and battery life indicators. The meter is sealed up well with a  rubber o-ring on the battery compartment but is not marketed as waterproof. The new meter also has a larger LCD and is now supplied with a plastic carrying case and packets of calibration solution.

[mabrungard]

@pfabsits

The trick to long life is in the maintenance. Rinse between measurements, periodically cleaning and using a storage solution.

Good advice. I assume you are somehow associated with Hanna? You present information that is far above a hobbyist’s.

[jimmykx250]

Just heard an interview with John Palmer and he stated he thought the colorphast brand strips were adequate for the home brewer and that he wasn’t up for the cost/maintenance the probe styles. I’m just starting to get into the water quality issue and that’s why i’m asking. Anyone have any input on these strips or am i kidding myself? I don’t know if i need .05 accuracy when it comes to ph.

[Philbrew]

@AmandaK

@hopfenundmalz

Thermoworks has one. Never used it, but I like my thermopen.

Shop - Products - pH/Humidity - pH - ThermoWorks

Have the 8689 and love it. It replaced my Hanna pHep5.

3 point calibration, with the ability to have the unit tell you if the slope is far enough off that it’s time for a probe replacement - much better than guessing. Probe cap actually is liquid tight, unlike the pHep5, so storage solution stays put. Holds a calibration for about 3 weeks.

I bought the Thermoworks 8689 on Amanda’s recommendation and so far (3 uses) it has worked well.  The instruction pamphlet could be better.

[narcout]

@jimmykx250

Just heard an interview with John Palmer and he stated he thought the colorphast brand strips were adequate for the home brewer and that he wasn’t up for the cost/maintenance the probe styles. I’m just starting to get into the water quality issue and that’s why i’m asking. Anyone have any input on these strips or am i kidding myself? I don’t know if i need .05 accuracy when it comes to ph.

I used them for a long time.  My experience is that they are ok at letting you know if you are in the correct range, but you can’t really pin down an exact reading.

They do tend to read about 0.3 too low as Kaiser demonstrated.  An Evaluation of the suitability of colorpHast strips for pH measurements in home brewing - German brewing and more

They also seem to read the same whether or not you cool the sample to room temperature or just dip them in the mash (at least that was my experience).

$20 for a box of 100 is the best price I’ve seen: http://www.sanitationtools.com/products/colorphast-ph-strips-single-box

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@narcout

@jimmykx250

Just heard an interview with John Palmer and he stated he thought the colorphast brand strips were adequate for the home brewer and that he wasn’t up for the cost/maintenance the probe styles. I’m just starting to get into the water quality issue and that’s why i’m asking. Anyone have any input on these strips or am i kidding myself? I don’t know if i need .05 accuracy when it comes to ph.

I used them for a long time.  My experience is that they are ok at letting you know if you are in the correct range, but you can’t really pin down an exact reading.

They do tend to read about 0.3 too low as Kaiser demonstrated.  An Evaluation of the suitability of colorpHast strips for pH measurements in home brewing - German brewing and more

They also seem to read the same whether or not you cool the sample to room temperature or just dip them in the mash (at least that was my experience).

$20 for a box of 100 is the best price I’ve seen: http://www.sanitationtools.com/products/colorphast-ph-strips-single-box

I still use them and that’s been my experience, too. I need to break down and get a meter.

[denny]

@jimmykx250

Just heard an interview with John Palmer and he stated he thought the colorphast brand strips were adequate for the home brewer and that he wasn’t up for the cost/maintenance the probe styles. I’m just starting to get into the water quality issue and that’s why i’m asking. Anyone have any input on these strips or am i kidding myself? I don’t know if i need .05 accuracy when it comes to ph.

Having used both the ColorpHast strips and a meter, I can tell you there’s a reason I use a meter these days and not the strips.

[jimmykx250]

But do you think your beer will improve that much? I guess my question is will the added accuracy really be detectable in the taste of the beer? I don’t know if I could manipulate mash ph that closely? I’m still learning.

[coolman26]

@narvin

I wouldn’t waste money on a meter that has an accuracy worse than +/- 0.05.  Also remember that the probe doesn’t last more than a couple of years.  I got the MW102 because of the .02 accuracy and because you can replace the probe for $30 when it becomes necessary.

Agree 1000%  I bought cheap twice.  I could have saved money in the long run had I bought a good one.  I’m looking at one from Omega.  I don’t know Claudius B, but he recommended it and I know he is knowledgeable.  It is at that near $100 range.  Last one was a Milwaukee 56 I think.  Never did work right.  Buy once with a replaceable probe IMO.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

I have $12 meter. It told me that Brunwater does a good job estimating my mash ph. I don’t have any more calibration solution so I have abandoned the meter. But, with that validation I feel I can just use Brunwater to tweak my intended ph and go from there. In other words, if I want a lower ph I just target a lower ph in Brunwater and trust the ph moved that direction. This of course is not a perfect system, but, I think it is good enough. At least for now.

PS. I think switching to RO water and Brunwater has definitely helped my beer. I am not sure I would get similar improvement from a $100+ worth of ph meter and calibration solution.

[klickitat_jim]

I think this is one of those subjects that just depends on the brewer. Kind of like the old Sears good-better-best thing. If you dont think you need a meter, then dont get one. I love mine, but it was a gift. One day I plan to upgrade and regift it. As to colorphast, I found them useless.  Probably wasnt using them right.

All in all, you can make great beer without a meter. But you dont know precisely what your ph is without one.

[hopfenundmalz]

I know a guy who does historic brews and keeps it historic - no thermometer, hydrometer, and oh yes no pH meter. He makes beer. Historic beer, but it is beer.

[Philbrew]

@alestateyall

I have $12 meter. It told me that Brunwater does a good job estimating my mash ph. I don’t have any more calibration solution so I have abandoned the meter. But, with that validation I feel I can just use Brunwater to tweak my intended ph and go from there. In other words, if I want a lower ph I just target a lower ph in Brunwater and trust the ph moved that direction. This of course is not a perfect system, but, I think it is good enough. At least for now.

PS. I think switching to RO water and Brunwater has definitely helped my beer. I am not sure I would get similar improvement from a $100+ worth of ph meter and calibration solution.

Yup, RO water and Brunwater is by far the most bang for the brewing buck.  Ph meter just confirms what Brunwater says.

[leejoreilly]

@klickitat_jim

I think this is one of those subjects that just depends on the brewer. Kind of like the old Sears good-better-best thing. If you dont think you need a meter, then dont get one. I love mine, but it was a gift. One day I plan to upgrade and regift it. As to colorphast, I found them useless.  Probably wasnt using them right.

All in all, you can make great beer without a meter. But you dont know precisely what your ph is without one.

Jim, I agree, and I think this is generally true throughout the home brewing process. Some things strongly affect the probability that you will make “good beer”, like proper sanitation standards. Others will affect that probability less strongly, like using a yeast nutrient. Others may not have a lot of impact on the quality of your beer at all, but are an enjoyable part of the hobby, like knowing precise pH all through the process (once you use BrunWater to get you in the “high probability of good beer” area to begin with). There’s stuff that you Have To Do, stuff you Ought To Do, and stuff that you Want To Do, and it’s all part of the enjoyment of brewing.

[mabrungard]

Like I say: To hit a home run, you have to be in the ballpark. Doing some minimal water adjustments is going to get you much closer to ideal and having a tool that gets you most of the way there is very helpful. Unfortunately, we know all too well that these programs aren’t perfect. But you will be closer to your objective with their use than without.

I am firmly in the camp that has to measure pH, but I’m doing it to find problems and improve the Bru’n Water program. However, the sentiment which espouses the use of a known water source and using a reliable program to get you in the ballpark could be good enough for most brewers.

[system]

@mabrungard

Like I say: To hit a home run, you have to be in the ballpark. Doing some minimal water adjustments is going to get you much closer to ideal and having a tool that gets you most of the way there is very helpful. Unfortunately, we know all too well that these programs aren’t perfect. But you will be closer to your objective with their use than without.

I am firmly in the camp that has to measure pH, but I’m doing it to find problems and improve the Bru’n Water program. However, the sentiment which espouses the use of a known water source and using a reliable program to get you in the ballpark could be good enough for most brewers.

I think I may stick with strips until i’m ready to buy a good meter. Buy once and be done with it.

[klickitat_jim]

To be clear. I know my source, use a tried and true program, and with recipes that are new to me I test with a meter all the way through. The only way to accurately verify, and adjust.  On rebrews I only test final ph.