ph meter

[denny]

@MattyAHA

yeah i hear ya but the ph of a pilsner will be different then the ph of a ipa and that will be different then the ph of a stout etc, for someone like me, all i brew regularly is a pilsner and a stout and a sour once a year so that would probably be easier to dial in but if you brew a wide range of beers maybe better just to buy a ph meter, and you are right as home brewers we do what we wanna do and what works for us, me personally like to have proof that my ph is were i want it everytime i brew, i dont like to cross my fingers and assume i have it dialed in, i like to know without a shadow of a doubt, but i dont disagree with any ones methods cause its their methods

I’ve found that using Bru’nwater makes a meter pretty much unnecessary.  I checked pH for a while and every time it was what Bru’nwater predicted.  I now have 3 pH meters that sit in a drawer because I no longer need them.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@denny

@MattyAHA

yeah i hear ya but the ph of a pilsner will be different then the ph of a ipa and that will be different then the ph of a stout etc, for someone like me, all i brew regularly is a pilsner and a stout and a sour once a year so that would probably be easier to dial in but if you brew a wide range of beers maybe better just to buy a ph meter, and you are right as home brewers we do what we wanna do and what works for us, me personally like to have proof that my ph is were i want it everytime i brew, i dont like to cross my fingers and assume i have it dialed in, i like to know without a shadow of a doubt, but i dont disagree with any ones methods cause its their methods

I’ve found that using Bru’nwater makes a meter pretty much unnecessary.  I checked pH for a while and every time it was what Bru’nwater predicted.  I now have 3 pH meters that sit in a drawer because I no longer need them.

Bru’n Water gets me within the range you can expect, +/- 0.2-0.3 of predicted.  It varies with every malt. No software can know all the factors that go into the real world pH.  If that’s close enough for a given brewer (it’s certainly in the broadly acceptable range,) you’re good.  If you want to fine tune it to get a certain quality of flavor, body, etc. then using a meter and learning to further dial in your treatments is for you.

[ynotbrusum]

@denny

@MattyAHA

yeah i hear ya but the ph of a pilsner will be different then the ph of a ipa and that will be different then the ph of a stout etc, for someone like me, all i brew regularly is a pilsner and a stout and a sour once a year so that would probably be easier to dial in but if you brew a wide range of beers maybe better just to buy a ph meter, and you are right as home brewers we do what we wanna do and what works for us, me personally like to have proof that my ph is were i want it everytime i brew, i dont like to cross my fingers and assume i have it dialed in, i like to know without a shadow of a doubt, but i dont disagree with any ones methods cause its their methods

I’ve found that using Bru’nwater makes a meter pretty much unnecessary.  I checked pH for a while and every time it was what Bru’nwater predicted.  I now have 3 pH meters that sit in a drawer because I no longer need them.

Echoing Denny and they sit right next to my stir plate and 5.2 product…

[MattyAHA]

i need to get brun water again , i had it on my old computer, but i dont remember brun water predicting kettle ph,post boil ph or final beer ph, does it?  i know people are gonna say just worry mash ph but when i brew i dont like to make it easier, brewing is a hobby and you can take the high road or the low road and get great beer its all up to you, yeah i know some extra steps might not make a difference but if it means my brew days are longer im all for it, i dont brew just to make beer i love brewing with a passion so nothing on brew day is inconvenient to me, the more hoops(maybe unnecessary hoops) i have to jump through means the longer the brew is and the happier i am

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

BW just predicts mash pH.  But everything else follows from that starting point.  I also use BW to help guesstimate my kettle acid addition when I use one, but that’s a non standard use I’m still playing with.

[narcout]

I also like to measure final beer pH, mostly just for fun, but it can be interesting.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@narcout

I also like to measure final beer pH, mostly just for fun, but it can be interesting.

Heck, I might take more pH readings than I eat hot dinners during the life of a brew.  Mash, wort, chilled wort, frequent gravity samples during fermentation, at racking… you can never have too much data to track to learn how things work, how to adjust things, predict things, diagnose and fix things, just confirm that things are proceeding normally…  If that’s how you approach brewing.

[denny]

@MattyAHA

i need to get brun water again , i had it on my old computer, but i dont remember brun water predicting kettle ph,post boil ph or final beer ph, does it?  i know people are gonna say just worry mash ph but when i brew i dont like to make it easier, brewing is a hobby and you can take the high road or the low road and get great beer its all up to you, yeah i know some extra steps might not make a difference but if it means my brew days are longer im all for it, i dont brew just to make beer i love brewing with a passion so nothing on brew day is inconvenient to me, the more hoops(maybe unnecessary hoops) i have to jump through means the longer the brew is and the happier i am

No, it doesn’t predict those.  And I assume you mean the more complicated way is the “low road”…

[hopfenundmalz]

@MattyAHA

@dmtaylor

Truth be told, I really don’t see the need to take pH at all. As long as you know the mineral composition of the water you’re brewing with, Bru’n water is accurate enough–and the mashing process is forgiving enough–that your beers will turn out fine. My compulsion to take and care about pH is a holdover from my commercial brewing days. I don’t do it much anymore…

I agree with this too.  I only got my pH meter about 3 years ago… brewing all-grain for about 10 years before that without any real problems.  Come to find my typical water and mash regimen gets me to about 5.4 pH anyway even without measuring.  Some people are not so lucky, but most are.

i agree for the most part you will have little to no problems without measuring ph, but measuring and adjusting ph at multiple stages of the brewing process not just the mash gives you that much more control and its easy so why not

Exactly!

[goose]

@dmtaylor

dmtaylor - which chinese cheap meter are you talking about?

Looks just like this one:

Amazon.com

I really dont see the point in spending $100+ for an instrument, for readings that are too late in teh process.  I mean, what am I learning by waiting to test a sample at room temp?  Am I missing something here?

I’m in the minority for sure… but I for one totally completely agree with you.  I want to measure in the first few minutes, get my pH, and not dork around.

And if the thing dies after a few years (mine has NOT yet), then it’s so cheap that I’ll just buy a new one.  Call me crazy.

I have the Milwaukee 102 meter mentioned previously and it works great.  I bought it used from a guy that was getting out of homebrewing and only had to replace the probe since it was not calibrating properly. Since I have a RIMS system, I measure the pH within about the first 5 minutes or so of mashing in (as Dave said. I don’t like to dork around) and since, from what I have read, a lot of conversion takes place in the first 10 minutes of the rest.  I take a small sample in a shot glass, cool it to below 100 degrees (usually to around 80 or so)  in a container of cold water, take the measurement, and adjust if necessary.  As a side note I always get really close to what Bru’n Water predicts for mash pH and normally need no adjustments.

I don’t dispute what Rob has said about the buffer stabilization in the mash and if you don’t have a recirculation system, you might have to wait a bit longer to get an accurate pH measurement.

[pkrone]

I’ve had a Hanna meter for several years and it works great.  I recently bought some new standards as my originals were getting a little old.  Interestingly, the old ones still agreed with the new.

I quit using my meter for a while once I got Bru’nWater dialed in.  But had to to back to it with Low-oxygen methods.  I use yeast de-oxygenation for my strike water and the process definitely throws off some acid.

[mabrungard]

@pkrone

I’ve had a Hanna meter for several years and it works great.  I recently bought some new standards as my originals were getting a little old.  Interestingly, the old ones still agreed with the new.

I quit using my meter for a while once I got Bru’nWater dialed in.  But had to to back to it with Low-oxygen methods.  I use yeast de-oxygenation for my strike water and the process definitely throws off some acid.

I did the same with my calibration standards that were getting old. When I checked, they were still reading the same as the new standards. I don’t think that the 4 and 7 standards age much, but I do know that the 10 standard does have to be replaced frequently. Maybe that is why there is a general recommendation to change out your standards so frequently?

I hadn’t considered that yeast de-oxygenation depresses pH, but of course yeast metabolism does produce acids and I guess I should expect it. The thing is that I don’t expect the yeast action to have enough time to produce a significant pH reduction in the subsequent mash since you’re only supposed to have the yeast and sugar in the water about 2 or 3 hours before use.

Assuming that your water quality inputs are accurate and the grains are typical, programs like Bru’n Water can do a pretty good job in assessing pH and helping brewers with the proper mineral or acid additions necessary for their brew. Its when your water quality strays or you’re using atypical grains that it is helpful to double-check what a program predicts with an actual and reliable measurement. Since those programs predict room-temperature pH’s, you do need to measure your wort at room temp. Those reported pH offsets vary widely and the temperature compensation function does not provide for the ultimate correction we want.

MEASURE AT ROOM-TEMPERATURE ONLY!!!