I cloned a version of Allagash Black recently which called for Pilsner malt to be used as the base. I got Bohemian Pilsner for the recipe which I believe to be of better quality than the standard Pilsner malt available from them. I checked my gravity after 10 days (WLP500) and everything seemed to have stabilised. But there’s a fairly strong sulphur type smell and taste that comes along with my hydrometer sample. It’s very similar to the taste and smell that I got last time I brewed a Dunkelweizen and a Hefe before that. Reading up on this seems to suggest that this will mellow out and dissipate, but it never did in my Dunkel and remained quite unpleasant (it mellowed somewhat in the Hefe but not completely). I’m worried that this is going to end up tasting the same. I plan to leave it in the primary for another week or so as it seems this strain takes an age to drop out.
My question is whether or not this is being caused by a weak boil? I can only boil on my stove top and although I can reach boiling point, it is a gentle boil rather than a vigorous one. I used 90% RO water & 10% tap. I added a campden tab and 2 tsps of Calcium Chloride.
Should I steer clear of recipes that use Pilsner malt until I get a gas burner that can boil wort aggressively?
But this flavour never left my Dunkelwiezen (that was the Weihenstephan strain) and I’m worried that it will hang around in this brew also.
are you using any nutrients or copper in your boil kettle? Sulphur is more of a yeast health problem. I brew with pils in almost ever batch and it is not a problem.
are you monitoring/manging PH?
I used yeast nutrient and my IC is copper.
I don’t have a ph meter right now, so wasn’t able to monitor it.
Fermentation seemed strong and quick. I used a 1.8L starter.
Sulfur with these strains of yeast you’ve mentioned may occur but is gone by the time you are ready to rack the beer. When its still there, IME its been because of yeast health and PH -both in mash and prior to pitching yeast into wort. When I first started brewing, I had issues with these strains of yeast and sulfur production that never went away (hefe and dunkel that tasted and smelled horrible). During this brewing period, I ended up determining my mash PH was outside the range of 5.2-5.5. Having an adequate amount of healthy yeast for your beer, good oxygenation, PH 5.2-5.5, and proper sanitation will give you good results with these yeast strains as well as any other.
EDIT: here’s a good explanation of common sulfur issues:
Sulfury
Sulfur flavors and aromas manifest in a variety of ways, from very low levels that are imperceptible to very high levels that is best described as rotten eggs. Sulfur-dioxide (SO2) is produced in very low amounts from mashing, but is driven off by a rigorous boil, otherwise the character imparts a sharp, biting flavor and aroma that is accentuated by oxidation. Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) is created in the boil in the presence of copper and is driven off by both aggressive boiling and warmer ale fermentation by escaping CO2, which explains why lager fermentation is more susceptible. Mutant yeasts that have defective metabolic pathways can produce excessive amounts of H2S that may linger enough to contaminate the flavor of the beer. Light-struck beer can create sulfur compounds because of corruption of the hop flavor. Formation of DMS is also a source from either malting or as a yeast by-product. Enteric bacteria can cause DMS-producing critters, but can be held at bay by good sanitation and by the natural lowering of pH though a healthy ferment by adding sufficient yeast. For larger breweries, recovering the CO2 can result in accumulation of sulfur compounds without proper scrubbing and filtration. Lastly, sulfur contamination can occur from allowing the beer to sit too long on the yeast, thus resulting in the breakdown of yeast walls though autolysis.
I had similar issues before getting control of my water (switching to RO) and my ph.
since you used 90% RO and 10% tap, presume you have water report for your tap water and used software to estimate your additions and PH?
DMS, a sulfur compound, is driven off during the boil and is more prevalent in pilsener malts. Without knowing exactly what you are smelling it is hard for me to rule out DMS as an issue. DMS is the a sulfury smell that I get during the boil. Finishing the fermentation warm may help.
Palmer has a good explanation of DMS at http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
Doesn’t the bohemian have a higher sms content (Dms precursor)?
If the floor malted Bo Pils from Weyermann was used then you may be right.
I had a very foul smelling lager once. It’s been awhile and I don’t have those notes, so I can’t speak to the yeast I used, temps, etc. It worked it’s way out during a long, cold lager period and turned out to be pretty good.
not uncommon for lager to throw off sulfur and then clean up during the process.
my gut leans towards the yeast (health and quantity) and the environment (wort PH, sanitation) as being the culprit here for sulfur in his ale.
sulfur that doesn’t go away after fermentation points to yeast stress IME with these yeast strains.
just my opinion.
Even your IPAs and such?
I boil all pils-based beers for 90 minutes. I know some brewers here report getting no DMS in shorter boils, but I’d rather boil the beer for 90 and be sure than be stuck with a Rolling Rock-esque DMS bomb and have to curse every time I pour a pint (or pour it out).
I had been using tap water and making salt and acid malt additions which were calculated in EZ water. I had not really been happy with the results after a few batches so I changed to RO water. For this batch I based it on the water primer by AJ deLange which was posted over in Homebrew Talk. I had read that he likes to ‘cut’ his with 10% tap water also (I think!).
It was the Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner malt I used.
Is this batch going to be a dumper then?
I’d still let it finish up, cold crash it and see if it cleans up. Unless you need the primary for something else, mind as well give it shot.
Well, no. Not IPAs. I should say “the majority of beers I brew” since the majority are Belgian and German styles.
If the smell is truly H2S (farty, rotten egg smell), then it is volatile and can either be vented or removed through contact with copper. I get it from lager strain and hefe strains during fermentation all the time. I also get it in ciders with ale strains if I don’t add yeast nutrient.
If you keg, then you can blow it off by repeated CO2 purging. I haven’t used copper to remove it post-fermentation - maybe someone here with experience can share their methods on that.
Edit - if it really smells like sulfur, then I doubt it’s DMS. That is more of a cooked vegetable smell/flavor. In that case, it is really more related to the yeast than the malt. It just happens to be that many of the recipes that call for Pils malt (lagers and hefe’s) also call for farty-smelling yeast strains.
Yes, it’s more of a ‘farty’ smell than a cooked veg aroma. When I swirled the hydrometer sample in a glass, the smell was ‘released’ even more and seemed stronger for a while.
I feel that the fermentation went quite well, and the fact that I used a 1.8L starter for an OG of 1.068 suggests to me that the yeast weren’t too stressed during the process. I have only had this type of aroma in anything I’ve brewed using Pilsner malt.