Interesting. Another brewer suggested 30ml which is what I used. I have to assume that more Biofine is not necessarily going to lead to clearer beer especially considering the variables discussed here already. Thanks for the encouragement… I know some people are getting great results with it so good news all around.
Lately I have noticed how many commercial beers are not crystal clear…maybe it is due in small part to the Haze Craze, but I think tolerances for a little haze have increased.
I wish I knew what the magical clarity results were, so I could implement them, but frankly, I get some beers that just take a long while to clear and some just don’t. I use Brewtan B and Whirlfloc and I space out their additions by at least a few minutes toward the last 16 minutes in the boil, because it was mentioned as a best practice, but perhaps I have rushed them too close together on some occasions? Who knows?
The clear ones do have more curb appeal, but I made a Landlord clone recently with Simpson’s Golden Promise and it just has a touch of haze that doesn’t seem to want to go away. Malt issue, perhaps? I had some issues with North Star Pils under pressure fermentation, so maybe it is due in part to that…a real tail chaser inquiry, for sure.
Ever notice how clear the beer is right before it kicks? I think time is the key.
If I need a quick turn on a keg I use gelatin. But lately, things have been working out that my beers have been conditioning longer. That extra time has made a nice clear pint for me without anything other than whirlflock kettle finings, Bry-97, and a floating dip tube.
I think hitting 5.2 mash pH the same every time is really helping as well. My wort is read-the-newspaper-through-it clear going into the boil kettle.
Using the induction cooktop I use the exact same setting each brewday so I get a predictable post boil volume and OG. Therefore the boil pattern is the same from brew to brew. If I remember correctly, the mellow boil is to reduce shear forces based on a HBC seminar Martin gave.
I also whirlpool while chilling or steeping to help with the hop cone but I still get a little trüb in the fermenter at the beginning and end of transfer.
On the topic of “craft beer”, I agree that there is haze and an acceptance of haze. I see helles and pilsner, czech pils, kolsch, etc. all hazy. But I have a condition known as CBS or “clear beer syndrome” and the beer will be clear, dammit! :P My BTB addition in the boil is at 15 minutes and my WF or Kick Carageenan addition is with 7 minutes left and I do that every time so I don’t see that being the issue. But there is an issue and I will find it eventually. Cheers.
It’s true that when everything else lines up a gel solution does work, no question. It might be that when my variable issue (not sure what it is yet) is present in the beer, the Biofine and a gel solution will both whiff. I remember reading about some things that will cement a permanent haze in place but I don’t remember what they were. But I do know that I had some very stubborn haze in some batches and some were gelled twice and one might have been gelled thrice! Didn’t work. So whatever it is, it seems like nothing will fix it. Maybe Martin will drop in here.
I always like to error on the side of caution, so to me, the less is more mentality is the rule of the day until I find the addition that is acceptable to my beer styles. Biofine recommends a dosage rate of 200-2000 ppm. 30ml in 5 gallons would give you 1585ppm. 40ml would give you 2113ppm. I’m not certain I would want to go above those dosage recommendations for lack of known ramifications. I don’t know exactly what the health risks are with silicic acid but again, less is more.
Have you ever checked your boil ph? Kettle finings and the break reactions work better at a lower ph, an acid adjustment with 10 min left in the boil to get you to ~5.0-5.2 has been said to help and I have noticed a difference for me. Maybe that could be a variable since it all depends on recipe.
Also higher calcium levels seemed to have helped my beers as well. I used to always target at least 50ppm Calcium Injave been driving that up closer to 100 lately.
Thanks for mentioning that. When my transfer to the fermenter is done I have been grabbing a bit of the wort in a cup and checking the pH. The last 4-5 beers have been between 5.3 and 5.4. I am checking at that point just to see where I am in case I should start doing a boil addition. I am slightly high so it seems like I should be doing this. I have no way of knowing how much lactic acid (my pH-lowerer of choice) I would need to drop it down to 5.0 but it seems like I should start doing this. If I had 5.75-6 gallons of wort in the kettle and check my pH and found it to be 5.3-5.4, what’s the best way to know how much I need to drop it .3 or .4? Also, I always use some CaSO4 or CaCl or a combination in my beers. My source water has 34ppm and after my additions I am around 60ppm so I hope that’s sufficient.
Based on what I see on this first one, maybe I’ll try 20ml and see what happens. I agree… I don’t want anymore of this stuff in there than is necessary.
I hear this but sometimes my beers lager for a good 10-12 weeks and I might not have CLEAR beer. I definitely think time is one of the components but if I mess something up earlier in the process then I feel like the beer could age until Haley’s Comet comes back and it would still be cloudy.
I also check my post boil pH but not always. I have found that boil pH rises from mash pH. Anywhere from a consistent mash low of 5.2 on a pils rising to 5.4-5.5 and on occasion 5.7 post boil but that might be from an extended boil. This is according to notes.
To my point though, on that pils and actually most of my very soft water profile beers I don’t go over a Ca of 22-25ppm. and I have achieved clear beer
both employing time/gravity w/o biofine and the use of biofine. YMMV though and I was by no means suggesting you are wrong in your approach. If that is your results and they work, great!!
If you use Bru’n Water, Martin has suggested just add hower more acid it takes to drop what would be your mash ph in the spreadsheet to the boil ph you want to target. I typically playnit safe and add 1ml, but I most times I could use more.
… and it’s reasonable to just add the acid right to the boil kettle? I use one of those plastic syringes that you would use to give your kids liquid meds so just squirt it right into the kettle with 5-10 minutes left? My next beer is a pale ale and after that an American Bock. I might try it on both of those and then I would be ready (I think) to try it on something like a pilsner or helles where it might really be noticeable.
I stopped following all this stuff during my hiatus, but the thinking back maybe a year or two ago was to target a slightly higher pH at the beginning of the boil as it helps with reducing DMS (and this ties into the shorter, less intensive boiling) and then reducing the pH near the end of the boil with biological acid for better fermentation and foam retention. My recollection is that this is covered by Kunze (who recommends acidifying wort shortly before the end of the boil to 5.1-5.2), and there’s a snippet about it in reply #126 that I linked to above.
To be frank, it ticks me off when I buy a craft beer that is supposed to be clear and is hazy. Locally it happens a lot more than I would like. I know the local beers that I like. Half the time certain ones are hazy and half the time they are clear. I attribute this to rushing brews to market. In reality, I rush my own beers plenty often, but I am more willing to forgive my own errors in judgement
Thanks for that. 2016 was around the start of the LO movement and I know that a lot has changed and many adjustments have been made. At some point I was registered on their site and participated in some of their threads and I know that it was mentioned that doing 30-minute boils “will get you into trouble”. When I asked for an explanation to that, I did not get one. So somewhere in there the LOers may have changed their mind on that as they did on some other things. I say all of that without judgment. They put the framework together and went with it and then adjusted things along the way because they made more sense or some people were using different equipment or whatever. Cheers & thanks again.
I agree. I know a commercial brewer and I will go to their place and have a cloudy, dry-hopped pilsner. :( It’s not the way I would do it. There is a brewery that my wife and I ride our bikes to… all of their beers are cloudy. They have a Czech Pilsner that is always cloudy and I just wonder if they like it that way or if they don’t know how to clear it or they just don’t care or what. I realize not everyone looks for clear beer but I think it adds something positive to the experience and it makes it look more like BEER, not HOMEBREW.
I am curious what percentage of your batches have this problem? I have some batches that won’t clear but the vast majority are crystal clear either with time or the use of gelatin.
Okay, so I would probably check with around 15 minutes left and chill the sample quickly, make the adjustment and add WF/KC with about 7 minutes left. I’m going to check on the amount of acid and possibly start smaller and see how the pH is affected and work up on the next batch, etc. Thanks for that.
