Extra anecdotal data point: I tried doing the cap the mash thing for a few brews. I never did get the deep color I wanted, so I switched back to the all in approach. Don’t think I remember a difference in flavor, but the appearance was all off.
PS: I’ll look for TF as well. I’m sure I can get my lhbs to order it if all else fails.
No need to apologize! I want to make sure to test all this stuff out regardless of what has already been done, and I like when the data backs up what people I respect have been saying for years 
I wonder if the experiments could be planned to have the same final parameters. For example, plan to add salts to keep both the mash pH’s the same and plan to add enough capped roast malt to make the colors equal. After all you’re trying to find out if there’s a difference and you’ve already built in a difference. Knowing that the pH would be low and the color would be light makes the experiment kind of pointless imho.
From what I understand, Gordon’s method was not so much to smooth out the flavors, but also to simplify the main mash. If you do one mash and add the proper salts or acids to get the pH you want, then you never would have to measure this stuff again. Just do the main mash then add the crystal and roast malts later. Without any of the excellent water programs used, this makes sense for a beginning all grain brewer.
I tried capping the mash several times and didn’t get the colors or flavors I wanted, so I went back to the usual method.
I’ve done the same on occasion, Denny. All the years I blamed my recipes I didn’t realize it was a pH issue !
I prescribe to JZ’s comment on one of the “Can you Brew it” episodes I heard - “Brewer’s have been mashing it all together for hundreds of years, just throw it all in.” That’s a bit of a paraphrase, but you get the point. I’ve tried both methods, but I prefer the simplicity of just mashing everything together.
Thanks for the experiment, Marshall.
That’s definitely on the list, just like to start with the basics.
Which it does. But if it changes the flavor, is it worth the tradeoff?
I’m not even sure if it was a pH issue. I think that the shorter contact time extracts less flavor from the dark grains. Now, that may be due to pH, but I really don’t know.
No, I agree with you on shorter contact time/less extract. I just meant that I used to get frustrated with dark beers, thinking the only way to make a good one was to cold steep, add at vorlauf, etc., where mashing together at a higher pH got what I was after all along.
Got it!
in a few styles, perhaps. this method helps me keep my schwarzbier from being overly porter like.
Another interesting xBmt. Thanks for sharing these, Marshall!
I’ve used Midnight Wheat in my Schwarzbier and it wasn’t Porter-like at all.
What mash ph do you shoot for in a dark beer with roasted grains?
5.5 -5.6. Try it sometime !
yeah - I did the add prior to sparge with MW on my latest run of Schwarz. Its still lagering but ive been very happy with the initial results - just a kiss of roast aroma and flavor. that said, this is also first time using MW in a Schwarz.
my opinion is 90% of the time when using dark roasted grains you want the intense flavors and aromas, so mash it the whole time. for Schwarz and maybe black IPA, the capping the mash method may make sense.
sparge method may also play a part in these results, no?
I capped the mash with midnight wheat for my latest Schwarz, but I fly sparge, which means that they’ll be getting 45-55min contact time. whereas a batch sparger is much less time, perhaps?
just a thought.
That would be my guess. This has to come down to contact time, I would think. Even with batch sparging people have different runoff times. Mine are slow.
Plus this one was done via no-sparge. When I run off full volume/no sparge I make sure to give the “capping” extra time.
Blatz, do you notice less color when you cap?
I single batch sparge, but my method has been to add crystal malts after taking my first runnings, stir and recirculate for 15 minutes, then drain again.
hard to really say - the last time I did a Schwarz I used Carafa II, mashed the whole time.
This time, I replaced the carafa with MW, but also shifted the munich and pils ratio.
what I can say, is that it does seem, based on memory, to be lighter by a hair than what I recall, but it is also exactly how I want it to be - black when looking at the pint indirectly when on the bar, but reddish with black edges when held to the light.
I also capped a black rye DIPA and had a similar color result.