Like Denny I find that dry yeast does not need re-hydration, nor aeration. Even so, I must admit that in the transfer of wort to the fermenter, there are bubbles that may hold on their surface yeast cells while the bubbles exist, for awhile. Not sure of the impact of same, but it exists…
Agreed. While I don’t do a separate aeration step, I do pump my wort into the fermenter. I’m certain that gives me at least some aeration.
Thank you for bringing this up. Based on combination of genetic research and your notes above, I wonder whether the W-34/70 and Diamond are not 2124 Bohemian Lager, but rather 2035 American Lager, which is likely from Anheuser-Busch-Budweiser. How’s abouts dats!
Dat otta give it the boost required to make a legitimate claim about being the worlds most used yeast.
The yeast Charlie P got from a Coors technician is not at all like those 34/70 derivatives. It has an apple ester note to it ( not Acetaldehyde), not as clean as 34/70. I made a beer with it, not what I’m looking for.
He has said he found out it was isolated by Coors from a keg of Budweiser.
And there you go! Apple = Budweiser.
Heh… I get banana from Bud. YMMV
Are you guys referring to Cry Havoc from CP as the Bud yeast? If so, then we really are coming full circle with fermenting lager yeast at ale temps, eh?
I’m not sure, in fact I was wondering the same thing… Cry Havoc isn’t equivalent to Wyeast 2124 or 2035 or 2001, but rather is closest to 2007 Pilsen Lager, genetically.
Of these, I’m truly not certain whether any of these are the true Bud yeast, or which one is actually the closest. I’m not much of an origins guy, and should probably duck out at this point.
Not according to either manufacturer.
shrug
The fact is, manufacturers have so often times provided data NOT consistent with genetics testing, or vice-versa, more often than not. So, there’s no way to know what to believe or whom to trust. In the end, just like anything else, each of us will believe whatever we want, or provide an appropriate response of “I don’t really know, I can’t know for sure”, and maybe even “…and neither can you”.
Fun stuff to think about though anyway. I don’t mean to dismiss your information as false, not for sure. I just remain skeptical, because genetically, at least according to one (or two?) tests, 2124 is likely not very closely related to those other yeasts. Either that, or maybe ALL lager yeasts are so very closely related to one another that they’re all basically the same… which personally I do NOT “believe” to be true.
:o ;D 8)
I use 3470 regularly and I find that I typically see signs of fermentation in less than 24 hours and often within 18 hours (typically I pitch around 48F and set my fermentation temp to 48F). Here are some thoughts (I’m sure someone else has already posted these, but here it goes anyway)…
Inevitably store bought yeast is going to be a little bit old: there’s a decent lag between when the yeast gets packaged, when it gets delivered to a store, when it gets purchased, and when it finally gets pitched. Because of this, it can take some time for the yeast to “wake up” and the start of fermentation can be sluggish. If you aren’t already making a starter, I highly recommend it. Not only will it wake up your yeast it will also help insure your have enough cells (more on that below). Chris White’s yeast book has wonderful and easy to follow info on making starters. On a related note, if the yeast is being pitched out of a packet that was taken straight from the fridge the yeast will be much colder than your wort and so it will take even longer for it to adjust and with that more of a lag.
Second, I know others have commented on whether or not you need to aerate, but I would highly, highly recommend aerating or, if you can, oxygenating. Once again I will point you in the direction of Chris White’s book in that it highlights the importance to having enough oxygen early in fermentation. Of the handful of times I have had slow starts with 3470, a few of them were due to not enough oxygen.
Finally, double check that you have enough cells. The few times I have had lags with 3470 most of the time it was because I didn’t have enough yeast cells. Mr Malty has a great pitching calculator and Chris White’s book has an easy to follow formula. Insuring you have enough cells will help you start fermentation better. It will also help insure you make excellent lagers.
Good luck!
Concerning 34/70…
We have used it on two brews. Each time it lagged for a full 36+ hours before active fermentation was observed. Each time we followed Fermentis directions with regards to pitching rate, temperature, etc.
The expire date on the package is September 2021.
Once it gets going it is fine. But it does test your patience.
Sorry, but you and Chris are both at odds with the people who make the yeast. Was he talking about dry yeast or liquid yeast? Also, using vitality starters, I find cell count is a very minor thing. Chris even confirmed that to me when he said “homebrewers are too hung up on numbers”. I have been pitching cold yeast straight of the fridge for nearly 20 years and I get great performance that way.
Bottom line…do what works for you.
And why the heck is everybody so hung up on a short lag time?
This mirrors my experience.
Short lag time aids in prevention of an off infection getting established.
My experience to date with 34/70 is with dry. But we will harvest some fresh yeast (34/70) from a recent brew next week. So that should behave more like what we have experienced in the past.
If your sanitation is good, that’s really not an issue. I mean, you wouldn’t want to wait a week for it to start fermenting, but in practical terms 72 hours isn’t really different from 2 hours.
Yes, I agree. Our sanitation is like a hospital operating room, hyper-clean.
And our recent brew (36 hour lag) is just fine. In fact, it is very good, a Munich Helles.
I just listened to a 15 Oct 19 Brew Strong episode on off flavors where they recommended adding Zinc. Something like, yeast need Zinc for a healthy fermentation.
When I looked the ingredients used in Wyeast’s nutrient, zinc was #3 on the list.