I’ve seen S. cerevisiae’s post about not using Star-San solution not being effective against wild yeast and molds due to the wild yeast being resistant to the acid-anionic action of the Star-San solution and as tolerant (or more) than the desired Sacch strain, and because many molds are pretty much being indifferent to pH.
I think I would disqualify periacetic acid due to safety concerns. So what other sanitizers do you recommend that would be effective against wild yeast and molds? Iodophor?
As a brewer that likes cheap n’ easy brewing, ease of use is also a consideration, which sort of eliminates bleach because rinsing with disinfected water is too futzy.
If you need the big guns, then bleach is the way to go. If this is for routine use, then iodophor works great on clean surfaces. It is inactivated rather easily by organic deposits, so you really need to be sure your cleaning is up to par.
Personally, I feel that Star-San is sufficient the majority of the time. It works just fine as a bacteriocidal agent, and it is more effective in the presence of organic residues than bleach or iodophor. Lactic acid bacteria are probably your top concern as potential contaminants in the brewery if you follow good cleaning procedures. But for persistent infections, you should reach for something a bit more broad-spectrum.
What I try to do is make a good solution of cleaner - PBW powder or Craftmeister tabs and give it a good soak or scrubbing. Then I rinse well with hot tap water and sanitize with Star San (since I have a large jug of it to use up) or Iodophor at the lighter concentration. I figure that if I do that and then use the vessel immediately, I am pretty safe from mold and wild yeast contamination. If I store the cleaned and sanitized vessel for any length of time, then I sanitize again with Iodophor.
When I use up my present stash of Star San and Iodophor, I will be moving to the bleach and vinegar process, but that will probably be a long time down the road, given the bulk buys I made a while back!
From the “Handbook of Biocide and Preservative Use” p320:
[quote]Compared to chlorine or iodine disinfectants, acid-anionic products are more stable at elevated temperatures, and their germicidal activities are less affected by organic soils.
[/quote]
I have a lower standard for data. Given the ubiquity of a spray bottle of Star San in brewing and cellaring, the hundreds of thousands of clean batches of beer being brewed by craft brewers in this country are evidence enough for me.
… That said, I don’t personally use it, but I have in the past and would again.
This^^^^ Once again, I really don’t care what the theoretical side says, other than as a curiosity. The bottom line is that StarSan has worked effectively for me for years. That’s the data I care about.
I would love to know what a local craft brewery uses as a sanitizer because all of their beers are infected. The fact that no one at the brewery recognizes that they have a persistent infection problem amazes me and most of the local brewers that I know.
My guess, and its really a hunch, is that most homebrew infections are from poor cleaning, not poor sanitation. I suspect sticky patches of dried up beer in tubing, racking canes, bottles, fermenter covers, and bottling bucket spigots are often the culprit. Its these places that don’t get physically scrubbed that might be harboring critters and protecting them from a quick coating of star san.
What is the shelf life of mixed bleach based sanitizer? I know bleach itself has a shelf life and I imagine diluting with water will reduce it.
Cleaning tubing and racking canes is the pits. I run hot water through them as soon as I am done with them and then soak with oxyclean. Blowoff tubing is the worst with all the crust. I try to replace it with a clean tube once fermentation slows, but that doesn’t always happen.
It does not matter how well one cleans when the microbe is yeast or mold. Star San cannot kill these microorganisms due to its mode of action. Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (the active ingredient in Star San) kills via attraction to positively charged cells (hence, the anionic part of acid-anionic). Once inside of a bacteria cell, the surfactant goes about wreaking havoc on cellular function. Yeast and mold cells are negatively charged; therefore, Star San is not effective against these organisms.
Using distilled vinegar (5%) and drug store hydrogen peroxide (3%), you can create a pretty safe peracetic acid solution. If I’m not mistaken, its the same mixture that is used to pickle the lead out of old brass fittings.
I don’t know why we homebrewers don’t use it more often. It is highly effective. More importantly, I feel that Mark is correct that we should hit our equipment with an alternative disinfectant on occasion. Why not do something that is so easy.
If a brewery has a lingering infection and never addresses it, I guarantee that there is a lot more at issue than simple choice of sanitizer. That sounds like an operation that doesn’t take quality seriously.
Another ^^THIS^^. I have become a believer in a strong bleach solution soak a couple times a year as insurance against resistant organisms, but past that it’s Star San for me. I’ve had zero infected batches since using this process, (and only a handful in 20+ years prior). I agree with Pete that sanitizing surfaces that aren’t clean is a quick route to infection, and with Eric that a brewery with persistent infections has serious process issues that might not be solved even with a sanitizer switch. That and their ability to assess their own beers is utterly worthless.
EDIT - No bleach for kegs obviously. They get iodophor a couple times/yr. Same idea.
