It should work for beers that are up to 1.060. A lot of people used to pitch 500ml starters. The only way to know for certain if it will achieve acceptable results for you is to try it. I would be cautious with worts above 1.060, that is, unless you have access to an O2 bottle. Higher osmotic pressure combined with increasing difficulty when it comes to dissolving O2 as gravity increases makes underpitching a risky endeavor. High osmotic pressure leads to water being drawn out of the cells, which, in turn, causes a loss in turgor pressure. Yeast cells without healthy cell walls and plasma membranes wrinkle and implode.
I like spinning and continuously aerating a starter to proof the yeast. I do chill and decant the spent wort. But then during chilled wort runoff, I run oxygenated wort into the beaker and give it some good shaking and let it get to work for a few hours before pitching.
Yes, that may have been the genesis of stir plate adoption, but it is based on faulty information. That research did not include direct O2 injection. It did include periodic shaking, but not an intense initial shake in an oversized container to increase 02 absorption. The periodic shaking was performed using an Erlenmeyer flask with not much in the way of headspace. The focus was more on agitation than O2 absorption. The one thing that we know for certain is that if a starter reaches high krausen, it has reached maximum cell density beyond which replication is for replacement only, which means that we can get an overall higher cell count in the sediment if we allow a starter to ferment beyond high krausen, but we cannot get get a higher viable cell count. The liquid cultures that are being sold today are huge compared the liquid cultures that we used in the 90s. Pitching a smack pack without a starter was pure lunacy because it resulted in lag times measured in days. Very few sane people did it more than one time. Today, a relatively new White Labs culture can be pitched into 5 gallons without a starter. That is because the cell count is so high.
The reality is that spinning is not necessary. It adds absolutely no value because most brewing yeast strains do not need to be spun to stay in suspension because they belong to the NewFlo phenotype and the strains that are not NewFlo are Flo1. Now, adding O2 is on the money.
Count me in that group. I stumbled upon a thread talking about the SNS method a little over a year ago and tried it. My stir plate has been on a back shelf gathering dust ever since.
I have used the SNS method with ales with great success. Now I’m curious about using this method with lagers.
If I brew a pilsner, how many packs of liquid yeast should I use in the 1 liter starter? Is one pack enough? Or, should I use 2 packs in the 1 liter starter? Or, should I make a larger starter with 2 packs?
Cheers,
Brandon
Likely to be more like 1.065. I’m gonna give it a go with WY1217.
Have you ever tried SNS to compare? I feel like I get healthier yeast than when I used a stir plate.
I have made lagers with SNS many times. One pack is enough. When you talk about using more, you are falling into the cell count trap.
Brandon,
I will add to Denny’s comment by saying that yeast cell counts have been overblown in the amateur brewing community. I blame this phenomenon on the heavy use of brewing software. The yeast biomass grows exponentially at a rate of 2^n, where the symbol “^” denotes raised to the power of and n is the number of replication periods. Under optimal conditions the replication period is around 90 minutes. We usually use yeast below optimal growth temperature, which lengthens the replication period, but to drive this information home, the difference between 200B cells and 400B cells is one replication period. The difference between 200B cells and 800B cells is two replication periods. What matters is yeast cell health going into the fermentation and the amount of dissolved O2 in the wort.
If you would like to know more about this subject, read my blog entry entitled “Yeast Cultures are Like Nuclear Weapons” (Yeast Cultures are Like Nuclear Weapons | Experimental Brewing).
To open up another can of worms, the practice of pitching cooler and letting the fermentation come up to temperature is also mostly homebrewing dogma that was popularized by Jamie Zainasheff. I challenge anyone to go on a homebrewing forum call BS on that one. I pitch a few degrees higher than fermentation temperature and let the fermentation come down in temperature. Why? Because it shortens lag time and speeds up exponential growth, both of which are good if one has solid wort and the proper yeast strain for the job at hand. I exposed the fallacy of starting ales cooler and letting them come up to fermentation temperature to prevent the overproduction of unwanted compounds in the “Factors Affecting Metabolic Production” section of my blog entry entitled “Have You Seen Ester?” (Have You Seen Ester? | Experimental Brewing). While a fast exponential growth phase does often result in a higher level of metabolites, wort composition and yeast genetics have a greater impact on ester and higher alcohol production.
With the above said, I am not going to attempt to slay the “pitch cooler” dragon. I am happy with attempting to make stir plates an optional piece of equipment. New brewers usually have finite resources. The last thing that new brewers need to do is spend good money on a piece of equipment that was not designed for cell culture when there are cheaper alternatives that work as just as well, if not better.
Like “close enough is good enough” for yeast, I’ve found the same true with temp. My preference is to go a bit cooler. If I’m a bit warmer, no big deal.
I pitch above and bring down simply because it is a lot easier on my system to lower temp than it is to raise it.
I pitch at target +/- 5*F.
I have a similar range. I have to admit it’s gotten a bit broader since I started using glycol chiller conical. I can adjust temp pretty quickly with them so it’s less of an issue to get it to pitch temp before the wort goes into the fermenter.
I concur! There have been times where I accidentally chilled my wort below fermentation temp when I was using a counterflow chiller in the winter (the public water supply here gets pretty darn cold in the dead of winter). However, like you, I have not experienced a big difference pitching +/- a few degrees, which leads me to believe that pitching low and letting the fermentation rise is just more amateur brewing dogma. Now, pitching at 75F is an entirely different subject, that is, unless a culture does well at 75F. That is why it is critical to pitch the culture that meets the job at hand. If the fermentation is going to be warm, pitch a culture that can get the job done without throwing a ton of metabolic trash. I like how the Belgians learned to brew with the seasons until the advent of mechanical refrigeration.
Thanks Denny & Saccharomyces! I appreciate the clarification. I’m looking forward to issuing the SNS method for a lager!
Cheers,
Brandon
Mark, when you say “unless a culture does well” are you referring to fermentation performance or beer quality?
It is a reference to not throwing a lot of metabolic trash. As we have learned, there are strains that do not throw a lot of metabolic trash beyond 75F. Basically, a brewer should pick a strain that will produce the desired result under his/her brewery conditions. Far too many brewers attempt to trick a yeast strain into performing well under their brewery conditions. Sure, it can be done, but it requires additional equipment such as a temperature-controlled fermentation chamber. Unless one lives in area where it is ridiculously hot all of the time, the need for a temperature-controlled fermentation chamber can be eliminated by brewing with the seasons and using yeast cultures that perform well under specific seasonal temperatures. A good example is Wit beer. Wit beer was traditionally brewed in the warmer months. Hopefully, the “everything IPA” craze will end and brewers will start brewing with the seasons again (lagers during the cold winter months, ales in the fall and spring, and beers that have been traditionally fermented at warmer temperature like many Belgian styles in warm months).
I brewed with the seasons for many years. I now revel in the fact that I d0bbt have to do that and I can brew what I like when I like. And that includes a LOT of IPA.