Good news- I have lots of carbon dioxide activity this morning in the carboy. I checked the ph using strips but it isn’t at the high end of the strips yet at 4.4 ph. I tasted it; little tangy and still sweet. I’ll post once I get around 4.0 or 3.8 ph. It smells much better; slightly fruity.
Good news. Are you basing your decision to stop souring only on pH? I’d taste it too.
No, I’ll taste. I just want to get below 4.3 ph so the bad bugs can’t reproduce. The last experiment was a little unsettling and I don’t want to repeat it. The smell has ruined my Igloo and I’d feel better knowing those bugs are not going to be a problem.
I’ve reused a mash tun that contained a mash that smelled like vomit without problems. Others have too. I even made a no boil Berliner Weiss using the mash tun. Just clean well and use some sanitizer.
Lacto is tolerant to low levels of oxygen and warm wort should be low in oxygen. I’ve soured 10-gallon batches of Berliner Weiss in my 15-gal brew kettle successfully without taking any special precautions such as purging the headspace or covering the surface with foil.
What kind of pH adjustment are you guys doing on your mash/wort with this method? I was thinking that if you use a high percentage of acidulated malt and/or use a big addition of phosphoric or lactic acid to get the pH lower than normal then you may give your lacto bugs a bit of a head start to outcompete any nasties.
That’s what I do. I make a 2L sour mash and lacto starter and lower the pH to less than 4.3 with lactic acid and keep it at 100-120F for 3 days. Then do the same with the full mash
The newest Basic Brewing Radio is an interview with a guy who does a sour-mash BW.
He mentions that his sour mash smells terrible but does not taste terrible. He mentions in 48 hours the bad smell dies down (a bit) and does not at all carry through to the finished beer.
A few other BBR shows have covered sour worts with similar results, one of which being a commercial brewery (Upright) who sours a bit of their mash in a cooler overnight. He says the brewery smells very “ripe” in the morning, but it also doesnt carry that flavor through.
I’ve been sour worting my first attempt at a Berliner Weisse. I added an ounce of lactic acid to the wort to drop the initial pH down, and 4oz of grain. I purged the headspace of the brewpot with CO2 and covered it with saran wrap. After 36 hrs of keeping it at 90F +/- 5F its smells (and tastes) nicely sour, no off notes in the nose, the SG has dropped from 1.044 to 1.036 (partial boil, recipe OG target was 1.031) and the pH is somewhere between 3.0 and 3.5 (I don’t have the most precise dip strips). I’ll do the 15 min boil tonight, and off to the fermenter, lacto bug free…
Has anyone who has used this method gone too low on the wort pH where regular ale yeast just won’t finish out fermentation? Or does the lacto stop before you get to that point?
Using this method I can get pH down into the mid 2s. Typically it’s 2.5-2.8, which is below what yeast likes. I generally sour wort and blend 50/50 to get my batch pH into the mid 3s. You’re looking at around 50% attenuation in the mid 2s, which on a Berliner Weisse or sour Wit is fine, but maybe not on a bigger beer.
Good info. I can’t always easily brew on schedule, so I was a bit worried about overshooting on pH. Sounds like I could just add water/DME to get me back to where I wanted if necessary.
I can tell you that a friend did a 36 hour sour mash. It was very tart and still fermented.
I did a 48 sour mash on a partial boil recipe. The pH dropped to 3.5, then I did the boil for 15 and hopped it. I pitched a fresh vial of WLP001 and nothing. I figured 3 gal at 1.031 would be sufficient for a direct pitch. After 24 hrs nothing, so I added a cup of WLP001 slurry from a previous batch that had been in the fridge for a bit. Another 24hrs and nothing. I added some DAP nutirient incase the lacto didnt leave anything. After another 24 hrs, still nothing. So in a last gasp, I “broke the glass” and added my emergencrgy sachet of S05. Finally after 96hrs from first pitch I have active fermentation, but no real krausen to speak of.
OG was 1.031. Lacto took it to 1.022. SG is now down to 1.012 and still going. This thing scared me. My two cents, pitch a lot of active yeast at high krausen and feed with plenty nutrient. The harsh acid environment is not where you want to wake up a bunch of sleepy Sacch…
Wow, that’s impressive! Do you pre-acidify to a certain point?
No pre-souring, just a 1-3L sour starter made from dextrose and base grain kept in the 100*s for a few days. Then I add it to the wort, and keep the wort hot for 2-3 days.
Lately though I’ve been just taking off the wort that I need from my souring bucket and adding fresh wort to replace it. I don’t totally drain the bucket and a lot of the lacto stays stuck to the sides of the bucket. So that’s basically like pre-souring I guess.
Ah - like a plastic bucket horny tank. I’ve been throwing that idea around for awhile. Now Im collecting/enjoying commercial sours for the initial pitch.