A couple of points. First, the main thrust of this topic is not aimed at the hobby. As hobbyists, we can and do brew anything we like, especially things we can’t find commercially. That’s at the heart of it. Second, gatekeeping can take different forms, and can be used to thwart the market forces mentioned. The demand of a majority of consumers can be subordinated to the interests of a minority, and more importantly distributors and third party influencers, who have found it possible to profit in the short term from maintaining constant publicity and frenzy for novelty among a few consumers, some of whom are not even, as has been mentioned, particularly interested in the product, just the associated circuses. Producers themselves are often frustrated by being unable to produce products either they want to make or their majority – potentially growth – market desire, as they are obliged to cater to marketers rather than markets. There’s been much discussion in recent years of the imbalance of power in the 3 tier system and between it and consumers. This is another aspect.
This is the flip side of the wild and crazy stuff is the monotone. Not too long ago craft was making beer the macros didn’t like Amber Ales, Blond Ales, Pale Ales, Stouts and IPAs…
It’s pretty common now (especially in the PacNW) to walk into a brewery tap room that has 1 blonde ale, 1 lager, 1 stout and 15 IPAs… A lot of brewers might want to make a good lager, or a belgian or a saison but the customers want IPA.
It’s a damned if ya do damned if ya don’t kinda thing sometimes…
I thought Trumer was an Austrian macro with a plant in the Bay Area, not sure I’d count it. Only seen it once, in a green bottle, on a warm shelf, a year old… just like if it had come from Austria. I’d do better buying a Beck’s. Likewise while I consider Yuengling’s Pilsner to be a great beer, that’s an old line, regional lager brewer that has been awkwardly shoehorned into the craft ranks by the BA. Heard nothing but good things about Pfriem, but can’t get it. Funny, but it sounds like if there’s a lager revival, it’s going to start on the West Coast, right where the original revolt against macro lagers started.
It’s funny – not in a “haha” way, mind you – that the AHA pays so much lip-service to the idea that homebrewing is an inclusive hobby. Sometimes I’m dumb enough to buy into it. In fact, there’s even a “diversity subcommittee” of the AHA governing committee. That committee is supposed to, “provide the AHA with ideas and advice to create a more diverse membership, inclusive community, and enhance member benefits for everyone”.
Here’s a pro-tip: telling people the beer they like isn’t Real Beer™, ain’t a great way to create an inclusive fucking community.
Maybe, actually, it’s the opposite of that. In fact, maybe there are folks who – even after having been a member for over a decade – like, say, me – are cringing really hard at how embarrassing this discussion is and this forum has become.
I really used to think this forum had technically superior information to other homebrewing forums. That hasn’t been true for a long while – most of the technical discussion is centered around Dogma or tilting at windmills, IMO. What this forum has become, however, is amazingly adept at shutting down descending viewpoints with minimal fuss and an “aw shucks” attitude. You all don’t listen to those who you don’t already agree with and you do it with flair.
I’m sorry, but there is a point where a fermented malt beverage is no longer beer. Mike’s hard being an example. There’s a craft brewery that says “malt beverage” rather than beer on the label, was/is it Dominion?
And if drinking malt beverage is your thing, fine. I don’t care. I really don’t.
Also, far as I can tell, this place IS inclusive. Plenty of posts about mead, wine, sake, etc…why not admit that malt beverages are a part of that? Let’s just call them that, that’s all I’m asking.
But from what I can tell, craft beer has bought into the Macro race to the bottom. Sickly sweet, gets you buzzed fast, mass market appeal…vs. being true to beer, which is how all this started.
Meanwhile, I just want fresh beer.
Oh, and Denny, I forgot one: Yuengling Golden Pils is an excellent craft lager, I had forgotten that one. Sadly now that it’s not new it isn’t as popular…and it’s harder to find fresh. Still an easier task than most craft beers though.
I’ll take people talking about why they don’t enjoy particular trends in brewing over people rolling in to drop ad hominem attacks and declining to support their position in any other way.
This post is the same kind of demeaning self-aggrandizement for which you complain.
If you found my post demeaning – know that that wasn’t my intent.
You characterize this discussion as being about particular trends in brewing. I disagree.
This discussion started by asserting that certain trendy beers should not be allowed to call themselves “beer” – which is already different than your characterization. This topic then devolved into: NEIPA is bad, glitter is some kind of line in the sand/being marketed at children (read: you must be a child if you like it).
For fuck sake someone brought up participation trophies being bad for your character.
Rhetoric matters. The tone of this discussion was inflammatory. This discussion was about what’s allowed to call itself beer and implicitly who’s allowed to call themselves a brewer in this forum.
You’re completely right: I am not taking a side in that argument. It’s not because I’m not participating, it’s because my knee-jerk reaction was not to participate because the discussion was so ugly.
This is fitting right in with my personal resurgence in simplification using Josh Weikert’s Beer Simple principle: “…return to the essential simplicity and joy of beer and brewing.”
Absolutely. Drew’s On the Ones idea, Palmer’s styles formula using base + four character malts in How to Brew, Josh’s Beer Simple, Zainasheff’s “by the sack method” in commercial breweries all reinforce this idea. I am aligning more and more to these ideas.
