By Martyn Cornell. Well researched as always…
Another great article from Martyn. I’ve become rather obsessed with that web site.
So Lett’s Strong Ale, which hadn’t been brewed for 20+ years, was the basis for Pelforth’s 1974 George Killian’s Bière Rousse’ which then became bastardized and dropped on unsuspecting beer drinkers as Coors’ George Killian’s Irish Red Ale, before becoming a lager. ???
I happen to know some people who think this is the best beer around too. My BIL will get a keg of it if he’s having people over. I thought the story was interesting and also not that surprising. Beer is partially about marketing (think Corona!) and if someone, somewhere could invent a story that goes with the beer then you’re going to sell more beer. I sent my BIL the link to the story too. 
Ain’t advertising and marketing wonderful!!
Unfortunately a lot of us really old guys that lived in the boondocks suffered through decades of drinking yellow mass marketed lagers before the craft beer revolution finally reached the hinterlands and provided light and a decent draft at the end of the tunnel.
That beer is terrible. Ok, that’s only my opinion and although I’m certainly entitled to it, I understand some people probably love GK’s Irish Red, just like there are surely things that I love that others would find repulsive. To each their own, respect all of our differences.
But that beer is terrible.
The style is not my favorite, but I prefer it to many newer styles such as NEIPA or pastry stout. The backstory is interesting and exposes what most of us dislike about the brewing industry - the marketing.
In the article it mentioned that small amounts of very dark malt (for me that would be carafa or MW) sends the beer towards red and I have always believed that as well. Some dark crystal for color (or Special B which has some red in it) and then dark malt to push it towards red. If you envision a beer made with maris otter, some dark english crystal that was 150°L or something and then maybe 2-3 ounces of MW or Carafa plus East Kents and White Labs 1084 Irish ale yeast… I feel like you would have a delicious beer on your hands. Let’s not let the fluffy “fake story” detract from the fact that a very nice beer could be brewed and enjoyed here.
I make an amber ale that uses a bit under 2oz cara aroma and an ounce of black at mashout, and that’s all it takes to give a deep amber/light reddish brown colour.
irish beer is an interesting thing. i think you guys likely get the picture, that ireland brewed basically stout/porter of the 1800s variety and pale ales comparable to england, no unmalted roasted barley in guinness until the late 20th century (pattinson). i have an interest in some of the strong ales like “drogheda strong ale”
a MBAA podcast on guinness yeast indicates that guinness had spent considerable effort to analyze and maintain their yeast since the early 20th century. as well, wlp004/wy1084 is not simply a british yeast taken and used in dublin, but contains significant non-british genetic material, as well as what is described as “american”.
the reality though is that earlier in history whiskey was the drink of choice in ireland apparently, all the porter and ale in general being a pretty modern thing.
I agree. I’m not trying to take apart the style just the fact that GK’s Irish Red would not be what I would consider a “shining example”. I enjoy any well made beer, regardless of style.
There you go. Good beer is good beer.
IMHO, I would not put Special B in an Irish Red Ale. That said, when I make mine, I put about 2 oz. of roasted barley in it for color adjustment in an 11 gallon batch. It adds a small amount of dryness to the beer without adding any noticeable roastiness. Lately, I have been a rebel using an idea I learned from a good friend who is a brewer at the Hell N’ Blazes Brewery in Melbourne, FL . He originally used 60, 80 and 120 crystal malts in his Red when he brewed it at another brewery some years back. I thought the beer was delicious when I had it, nice and caramelly. Don’t remember if he is doing this at his current gig because I don’t recall having the beer whenever I have been there and don’t know if he was able to take the recipe with him when he left the other brewery. I don’t make the beer that often but have incorporated this into my recipe.
Just my 0.02
I agree… I would be careful on the amount of Special B because the flavor could be assertive and out of place. That said, I have it in my brewery regularly and will use it for color mostly. Another plan of attack would be to hold the dark grains until after the mash and just let them steep for a few minutes prior top runoff… color with less flavor. I did that on a dark lager that is in my on-deck fridge (thanks Brewbama) so I haven’t tasted it yet. I always have Carafa III and MW around but I have not used straight-up roasted barley in a long time.
you mean mixing together 60, 80 and 120 crystal and adding that?
Yes, but not equal amounts.
Not that this has anything to do with anything but, in 1991 it snowed on Christmas eve and me and my buddy had a case of Killian’s Irish Red packed in the snow. It was ice cold, nearly frozen, and we thought it was the best beer on the planet. And that night? It was.
I’m not ashamed to say that I drank it. It was probably a bit of a novelty at the time. But some embraced it more than others. When my BIL first came over here and saw my draft setup I told to sample the beers to see what he liked and I still remember him trying them… Mmm, this one is kind of like Killians. This one isn’t like Killians at all. Is this one supposed to be Killians? Oh man, this last one is NOTHING like Killians".
Every brewery that wants to continue brewing has the same problem:
Getting their beer into as many glasses as possible.
To the general public, one “craft” beer is much the same as another. Assuming that word has any meaning any more.
The difference is the story that the beer tells.
Jim Koch finding the recipe for what would become Sam Adams in an attic.
Ken Grossman scrapping brewing equipment together and putting Sierra Nevada beer in other people’s bottles.
Nick Bush, Drifter Brewing Co in Cape Town, SA… lagers his kegs in an cave 100 feet underwater.
There’s only so much you can do with water, hops, barley and yeast. But the people that make it will always be the most interesting part to me. Even if the stories aren’t 100% true.
[quote=“Village Taphouse, post:17, topic:31496, username:Village_Taphouse”]
I’m not ashamed to say that I drank it. It was probably a bit of a novelty at the time. But some embraced it more than others. When my BIL first came over here and saw my draft setup I told to sample the beers to see what he liked and I still remember him trying them… Mmm, this one is kind of like Killians. This one isn’t like Killians at all. Is this one supposed to be Killians? Oh man, this last one is NOTHING like Killians".
[/quote]
beers like this were certainly a stepping stone and i respect them. i went to a bar last night and had rickard’s red. its a 5.5% “red ale”, tastes distinctly industrial but its price point is the same as domestic and is just that tiny step more flavourful than a pale NAIL. These kind of beers got people to realize that there are possibilities out there besides pale lager.
[quote=“fredthecat, post:19, topic:31496, username:fredthecat”]
[quote=“Village Taphouse, post:17, topic:31496, username:Village_Taphouse”]
I’m not ashamed to say that I drank it. It was probably a bit of a novelty at the time. But some embraced it more than others. When my BIL first came over here and saw my draft setup I told to sample the beers to see what he liked and I still remember him trying them… Mmm, this one is kind of like Killians. This one isn’t like Killians at all. Is this one supposed to be Killians? Oh man, this last one is NOTHING like Killians".
[/quote]
beers like this were certainly a stepping stone and i respect them. i went to a bar last night and had rickard’s red. its a 5.5% “red ale”, tastes distinctly industrial but its price point is the same as domestic and is just that tiny step more flavourful than a pale NAIL. These kind of beers got people to realize that there are possibilities out there besides pale lager.
[/quote]
*True. Gateway beers. Remember JW Dundee’s Honey Lager? There was a Budweiser “American Ale”, Killian’s, Anchor Steam and a number of other inoffensive beers that got people away from gold, fizzy lagers. For a long time in the US and Canada we had dark days of nothing but pale fizzy lagers. You needed to travel to realize there was better beer. I think there is a Dave Berry quote where he says after traveling “We’re drinking Barry Manilow beer and everyone else is drinking Ray Charles beer”. :D There was truth to that but not anymore. We have a ton of new breweries and more styles which is awesome. The people who like their Bud or Coors or Miller can be happy too. *