I’m struggling with variable mash efficiency, table below of the last 6 brews. Maybe this is common? Hoping for some brainstorm thoughts or ideas that I can look into, as I’m out of ideas. I just don’t understand why it keeps bouncing around.
I use RO and adjust with minerals and for pH. I’ve adjusted my mill. I’ve calibrated my thermometer, hydrometer, refractometer, and I measure volumes with a ruler in the kettle (accounting for hot vs cold volume). I’m using ssbrewtech 10 gal cooler style mash tuns, they hold temp fairly well, but depending on time of year can drop a few degrees especially if I open and stir and it’s cold outside. I don’t mash out and I fly sparge for generally about 30 minutes. I typically try to use about 50/50 water split for mash/sparge which is why the water/grist fluctuates. I’m not seeing any pattern to the wide range in mash efficiency. The only thing I notice is it seems grist with more dark and/or crystal cause a drop in efficiency. But I would have thought that Brewfather would adjust expected OG for the malts and my equipment profile. Or maybe I’m overlooking some necessary adjustment. Help…
Doesn’t matter to me what the efficiency is, I just want it to be more consistent, so I can plan recipes appropriately.
I see consistency. In the batches with 1.75 qt/lb, you see that more mash time gets you more extract. Which is what you’d expect. Another thing you can see, as expected, is that, in general, a thicker mash, allowing for more sparging, will allow you to rinse more extract out: you seem to be doing better with 1.75 than 2. So why is 1.4 not even better? Because at some point, the mash will thicken to the point where it is more difficult to fully hydrate and get the enzymes into the grist to convert it and get the extract diffused out into the wort as quickly. So there’s a Goldilocks set of conditions, the right combination of mash consistency, amount of sparge, and mash time, which for you looks to be something like 1.75 and 90. Try that across different recipes and see if they come in closer to each other, keeping in mind that the grain bill will also have a noticeable impact: crystal and roast malts just don’t contribute as much extract as base malts, which is why we use base malt accented with specialty malts.
Are you sure this is mash efficiency (how much sugar become available through mashing) and not brewhouse efficiency (how much sugar arrives in your kettle)? One possibility is that fly sparging is getting you different rinsing efficiency on different brews. I switched to batch sparging to solve a similar problem because it eliminates any variability in rinsing efficiency because all the brewing liquor is added in batches and mixes throughout the grist no matter how much grain there is. I recommend trying batch sparging for several brews (keep everything else as is) and see what your brewhouse efficiency is then.
Sorry, I didn’t notice that you are using the same proportion of mash/sparge liquor in each case. So the fact remains that conversion takes longer in a thicker mash. And that in a thinner mash your first wort density will naturally be lower, which maybe you are not able to concentrate sufficiently in the boil. But I think chinaski makes a good point too. You might try batch sparging to remove some variables regarding the mechanics of your sparge. But ultimately you may find a fly sparge is more efficient, but you will have to determine the correct mash thickness and ratio of mash/sparge as I indicated before.
Hmm… thanks much for the thoughts/comments! The two that confused me were the Brown and Dry Stout. The Brown had the same 1.75 but showed a drop in efficiency though it did mash 60 minutes rather than 90. This is the second time I’ve done the Dry Stout and both times I had a major efficiency drop so not sure what is causing that anomaly.
Yeah, everyone seems to have different terms for the efficiency points. I’m showing efficiency into the kettle, pre-boil, so yeah brewhouse efficiency then. My thought was that maintaining a similar sparge water proportion might provide similar rinsing efficiency. Maybe that is not the case with the variance in mash thickness that Robert discusses so well.
Seems the two options would be. Try to find the Goldilocks as Robert indicated, which I certainly haven’t figured out yet. I could maintain mash thickness at 1.75 and ignore the sparge proportion as you can’t solve two variables with one equation. Or do some batch sparging experiments, I have batch sparged before but with my setup fly sparging is easier for me as I can dial in a couple valves and walk away for a half hour rather than vorlaufing twice and sparging.
Chinaski since you switched to batch sparging, I assume from fly sparging, do you have a recommendation for a starting point for brewhouse efficiency? Given good mashing and fly sparge rinsing, it appears I can hit 90%, should I aim for 80% batch sparge?
I’ll admit I did not read through this entire thread. If you covered the below please disregard.
Were you using the same base malts in each beer?
If you used Pilsner, Munich, Vienna, ‘regular’ Pale 2-row, Maris Otter, Golden Promise, etc., etc. in various batches I think the efficiency variation can be correlated to the base. I’ve had low performance for Golden Promise as a 100% base malt for example. I throw some 2-row in for a boost now.
% of base to ‘character’ malt variations should also be examined and an efficiency correlation can probably be expected.
Into the kettle is mash efficiency. Into the keg would be brewhouse efficiency.
I thought you said you were measuring or calculating the pH in your original post, but perhaps the dark beers were missing the pH too low? Were you adjusting for that?
I am guessing this ^^^^ plays into it, at least somewhat. I have made that mistake before; going with late add dark malts and acidifying the pale mash a bit too much.
Good points. The brown and dry stout were Maris Otter based with rather different efficiencies though. The Marzen and pilsner were pilsner based with the Marzen having Munich and Vienna malts as well. The others were 2 row. Maybe I should throw some pilsner malt in to boost.
Yeah, there are definitely different terms thrown around. I actually think most would term mash efficiency = brewhouse efficiency, Understanding Efficiency - German brewing and more. My numbers were into the kettle, pre-boil, except for OG.
I calculate and measure pH. All batches were in the appropriate pH range.
All batches were calculated with the total grist and as a single infusion of the total grist. I measured pH at thirty minutes and they were all in an appropriate range.
So how do you guys plan out your recipes? The Brown and Dry Stout were brewed less than 30 days apart with Maris Otter from the LHBS. But they have significantly different efficiency. I keep targeting an OG based on mash efficiency but the actual is bouncing all over the place. I do think I’m going to do some batch sparges to see if efficiency mellows out.
Try brewing the same grain recipe with the same sack for a few batches and see if you can get consistency without the variability of various lots, maltsters, variety, etc.
As far as planning I go about 15 batches out (because that’s all BeerSmith will let me put in the cloud). LOL. Of course plans change but the rough draft is usually 15 batches or so.
Here’s a screenshot of my cloud folder. Notice the light/dark alternating. I have two beers on tap routinely and this provides a choice:
Thanks all for the thoughts and comments! I’ve avoided bulk grain storage as my LHBS has a killer $39 virtual bag for 50 lbs of 5 base grains. But sounds like in an attempt for more consistency I either get a sack and repeat brew or test out batch sparging. Decisions decisions…
You will figure it out - and you have relatively high efficiency (compared to me, at least), so you just need to get to a consistency level that suits you. Brew, Brew, Brew and you will be there in no time.
Thanks man. It’s certainly the consistency that I’m hunting for, efficiency is not all that important at the homebrew scale unless it is unusually low. My “problem” now is I have three beers on tap, two in reserve, and two fermenting. Have to hit pause or have a party or find some more friends…
I average about 75% brewhouse efficiency with batch sparging and its damn consistent with most brews. I vorlauf very very little before run-off and then go as fast as I want into the kettle. Sometimes I skip a mash-out step as well. What sold me was the rock-solid consistency that let me easily design recipes and it eliminated an astringency issue I had because of over-sparging. I don’t stress about lot analyses, differences in malt bills, etc. - just use some generic ppg numbers that were in the spreadsheet I downloaded years ago and modified.
Thanks for the additional info and help. That’s exactly what I’m looking for, consistency. Tired of designing a recipe only to have OG be significantly higher or lower depending on my mash efficiency variability. Once I get a free fermentor I’m batch sparging, bummer it’s likely going to be about a month until I can brew again.
